Jump to content

Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
 
 

Photo

2litre Overfill With Oil


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
My 407 had 2 litres too much of oil in it. *(Strange some sensor didn't tell me that?)

Anyway I have problems with the car that it uses 50% more diesel than the trip computer tells me, which really is an awful lot.

Anyone on here got any experience with never Peugeot diesels?

I think it's totally unacceptable that the real consumption is 50% more, the computer says 6.2l/100km, while the amount of fuel I filled gets it to more like 9l/100km.

My good old 405 2.1 TD was using 6.5l/100km and then I drove it like it was stolen.
The 407 I've tried to drive as economical as possible, and still it uses just insane amounts... No fun..

#2
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 28 2012, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My 407 had 2 litres too much of oil in it. *(Strange some sensor didn't tell me that?)

Anyway I have problems with the car that it uses 50% more diesel than the trip computer tells me, which really is an awful lot.

Anyone on here got any experience with never Peugeot diesels?

I think it's totally unacceptable that the real consumption is 50% more, the computer says 6.2l/100km, while the amount of fuel I filled gets it to more like 9l/100km.

My good old 405 2.1 TD was using 6.5l/100km and then I drove it like it was stolen.
The 407 I've tried to drive as economical as possible, and still it uses just insane amounts... No fun..


Hi Kristian

The first thing to do would be to put the oil level right and make sure the breathers are not blocked or contaminated. We've seen diesel engines run on their own engine oil!! You can't switch them off in the normal way but you have to stall them - (practicaly impossible if it's an auto).
Then see how it performs. If it's still the same then find someone with Peugeot Planet diagnostic equipment and see what data is stored and also what live data you get. We find our Peugeot planet gives the best results but Texa is also very good on European cars. Bosch is another good one.
Without seeing any data it's difficult to guess where the problem lies, but the 407's aren't the best model Peugeot ever made.
Hope this is of some help

Kev

#3
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
Thanks for your suggestions. I actually have got a china copy of Peugeot Planet / Lexia / DiagBox, but I don't really know how to use that thought.

But the car is not throwing any fault codes, so everything seem to be as it should, but somehow fuel gets lost somewhere.

I've started to think maybe the webasto kicks inn during driving, and is on all the time without me noticing?

After I drained the 2 litres of oil, the average consumption (calculated by the car computer) went from approx. 6.2 to 5.6l / 100km, so that is ok I guess due to reduced drag on the crankshaft.


#4
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 28 2012, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for your suggestions. I actually have got a china copy of Peugeot Planet / Lexia / DiagBox, but I don't really know how to use that thought.

But the car is not throwing any fault codes, so everything seem to be as it should, but somehow fuel gets lost somewhere.

I've started to think maybe the webasto kicks inn during driving, and is on all the time without me noticing?

After I drained the 2 litres of oil, the average consumption (calculated by the car computer) went from approx. 6.2 to 5.6l / 100km, so that is ok I guess due to reduced drag on the crankshaft.


Webasto??

#5
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
The Webasto is the factory fitted diesel burner that is located at the front left side (in front of left front wheel).

It is for extra heating of the coolant water during cold periods. I thought that maybe might be running while it shouldn't, hence a lot of fuel is consumed without me knowing it.

#6
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 29 2012, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Webasto is the factory fitted diesel burner that is located at the front left side (in front of left front wheel).

It is for extra heating of the coolant water during cold periods. I thought that maybe might be running while it shouldn't, hence a lot of fuel is consumed without me knowing it.


Ahh, of course. Would that not show on live data?

#7
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
QUOTE (2anda1/4 @ May 29 2012, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 29 2012, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Webasto is the factory fitted diesel burner that is located at the front left side (in front of left front wheel).

It is for extra heating of the coolant water during cold periods. I thought that maybe might be running while it shouldn't, hence a lot of fuel is consumed without me knowing it.


Ahh, of course. Would that not show on live data?


I have no idea really.

Isn't the live data just based on injector opening times, and road-speed?
I didn't think it should be more complicated than that.

So surely some other device might be consuming the fuel, or there must be a leak somewhere, but I can't see any traces of a leak around the car.

#8
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 29 2012, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (2anda1/4 @ May 29 2012, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 29 2012, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Webasto is the factory fitted diesel burner that is located at the front left side (in front of left front wheel).

It is for extra heating of the coolant water during cold periods. I thought that maybe might be running while it shouldn't, hence a lot of fuel is consumed without me knowing it.


Ahh, of course. Would that not show on live data?


I have no idea really.

Isn't the live data just based on injector opening times, and road-speed?
I didn't think it should be more complicated than that.

So surely some other device might be consuming the fuel, or there must be a leak somewhere, but I can't see any traces of a leak around the car.


Hi Kristian,

I've been asking around today but can't come up with any suggestions - sorry mate. Let us know if you find out what it is sad.gif

Kev

Edited by 2anda1/4, 30 May 2012 - 07:30 PM.


#9
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
Appreciate your effort anyway smile.gif

I haven't found out more myself, added some injector cleaner additive the to tank just to try it. But guess I have to check the injectors somehow for leaks etc.

The engine is quite often if driven at 1400-1600rpm juddering a bit, I have just thought this might be the EGR that is a bit slow in the operating. Will try to block the EGR with a blanking plate and see what happens to the juddering.

If it is still there then it actually might be something injector based.

#10
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 30 2012, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Appreciate your effort anyway smile.gif

I haven't found out more myself, added some injector cleaner additive the to tank just to try it. But guess I have to check the injectors somehow for leaks etc.

The engine is quite often if driven at 1400-1600rpm juddering a bit, I have just thought this might be the EGR that is a bit slow in the operating. Will try to block the EGR with a blanking plate and see what happens to the juddering.

If it is still there then it actually might be something injector based.

Now you mention it, have you tried an injector leak off test? Maybe the injectors are at fault, we've had a few with high leak off which can cause rough running and higher fuel consumption.

#11
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
QUOTE (2anda1/4 @ May 31 2012, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 30 2012, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Appreciate your effort anyway smile.gif

I haven't found out more myself, added some injector cleaner additive the to tank just to try it. But guess I have to check the injectors somehow for leaks etc.

The engine is quite often if driven at 1400-1600rpm juddering a bit, I have just thought this might be the EGR that is a bit slow in the operating. Will try to block the EGR with a blanking plate and see what happens to the juddering.

If it is still there then it actually might be something injector based.

Now you mention it, have you tried an injector leak off test? Maybe the injectors are at fault, we've had a few with high leak off which can cause rough running and higher fuel consumption.


I need to check the injectors indeed. Thought about it myself too.

Is it just to disconnect the return hoses, and connect some other hoses and drain into 4 small cups and see if they are flowing the same?

I actually think that one injector might be leaking quite much, maybe all the time? It seem to me "oil level" is rising again.
I poured out oil so that it was about 2mm below max on the stick. Today it was 2-3mm above max, but I'm not sure if the vehicle was 100% horisontal when I did the drain and check, so will give it some more time and see if it gets even more "oil" in it.

But a constantly leaking injector is probably not very likely? Anyway that could be a possibility if it gets diesel in oil, and uses more fuel than calculated indicates that more diesel passes injectors than what it is supposed to do.

#12
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 31 2012, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (2anda1/4 @ May 31 2012, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ May 30 2012, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Appreciate your effort anyway smile.gif

I haven't found out more myself, added some injector cleaner additive the to tank just to try it. But guess I have to check the injectors somehow for leaks etc.

The engine is quite often if driven at 1400-1600rpm juddering a bit, I have just thought this might be the EGR that is a bit slow in the operating. Will try to block the EGR with a blanking plate and see what happens to the juddering.

If it is still there then it actually might be something injector based.

Now you mention it, have you tried an injector leak off test? Maybe the injectors are at fault, we've had a few with high leak off which can cause rough running and higher fuel consumption.


I need to check the injectors indeed. Thought about it myself too.

Is it just to disconnect the return hoses, and connect some other hoses and drain into 4 small cups and see if they are flowing the same?

I actually think that one injector might be leaking quite much, maybe all the time? It seem to me "oil level" is rising again.
I poured out oil so that it was about 2mm below max on the stick. Today it was 2-3mm above max, but I'm not sure if the vehicle was 100% horisontal when I did the drain and check, so will give it some more time and see if it gets even more "oil" in it.

But a constantly leaking injector is probably not very likely? Anyway that could be a possibility if it gets diesel in oil, and uses more fuel than calculated indicates that more diesel passes injectors than what it is supposed to do.

Have you thought about selling it?? laugh.gif
The leak off test is basically what you said but with more complex equipment. A bit difficult to explain here.

#13
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
Yes have thought about it, but it's a quite nice car, apart from the diesel consumption I like it.

I got it quite cheap, so it ain't that bad. Just passed the MOT now, so really just the engine that needs to be sorted out.

Regarding the test, can't I just do something like this, I suppose if something is really off with one injector, I will see different amount of fluid coming?



#14
2anda1/4

2anda1/4
  • Passengers
  • 6 posts
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
  • Name:Kevan Shackleton
  • Location:Hampshire
QUOTE (B1ack_Mi16 @ Jun 3 2012, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes have thought about it, but it's a quite nice car, apart from the diesel consumption I like it.

I got it quite cheap, so it ain't that bad. Just passed the MOT now, so really just the engine that needs to be sorted out.

Regarding the test, can't I just do something like this, I suppose if something is really off with one injector, I will see different amount of fluid coming?


Yeah, that would work but you would have to sacrifice your original leak off/return pipe for the connectors and buy a new one. They're not expensive.

#15
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
I got some measuring equipment now and did the injector leak-off test.
After 10 minutes of running this is the amount of leak-off that came out.
To me it looks quite ok, not much difference in the big picture?



I also hooked up planet to see how the injector corrections values were, and also they were almost all at 100%.



Looking at the other engine parameters it also seem like the differential pressure sensor for the particle filter is not working, reading 0mbar?

Modern cars really is a pain in the ass.. long live the 405 smile.gif



#16
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
I must really say that this car and diesel engine is the worst crap I've worked on ever.

Why is the glow plugs behind the EGR system at the rear of the engine? I need to get the glow plugs changed to make the DPF regeneration system work properly and I started to remove EGR.

Well, bolts broken and now I need to take the engine out.

Can't see why they can't design engines that are a little bit easier to work on, this on is just a tight mess of wires and small parts all over it.

#17
cybernck

cybernck
  • Administrator
  • 8,788 posts
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
  • Name:Nikica Atlagic
  • Location:Banja Luka, Bosnia
Garage View Garage
So you'd have to take them to their garages for repairs, that's why.

(Also, 99.99% of today's car consumers are not B1ack_Mi16 laugh.gif)

#18
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
QUOTE (cybernck @ Jul 1 2012, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you'd have to take them to their garages for repairs, that's why.

(Also, 99.99% of today's car consumers are not B1ack_Mi16 laugh.gif)


Yeah seem like that's it.

I've started dismantling now, think I'll do cambelt, waterpump, oil-seals etc. at the same time when I'm first out with it.

Also my wallet likes to drive the 405 TD in the mean time as it uses less diesel than the 407 ever will anyway smile.gif

#19
B1ack_Mi16

B1ack_Mi16
  • Pitcrew+
  • 2,775 posts
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
  • Location:Trondheim, Norway
Voila, engine finally out!



This far I got of 3 of the glow plugs. Need to remove EGR before I get out the last one (I don't have small enough tools to do it without removing it). The first plug (nearest cambelt) actually disintegrated when I tried to take off the small nut, so the internals of the plug came out.


Regarding the plug tip getting stuck in the head I didn't have any problems at all with that, the old plug (Bosch) have a chamfer/conical design on the tip and they came undone very easy, could turn them out with my fingers when first loosened.

The new Beru plugs though seem to be a straight design without the conical tip, so I guess they might get stuck next time I need to change the plugs smile.gif



#20
cammmy

cammmy
  • Passengers
  • 4 posts
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
  • Location:Wellington, NZ
Weld the wastegate shut while the motor is out please biggrin.gif