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[car_upgrade] 205 Gets An Extra 2 Cylinders


113 replies to this topic

#41
maxi

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Yes, One the EuroTrip I had a few blasts with wildejon's car which is an S16 (I think!) on bodies and RR'd at 202bhp (not sure on torque figures) and there really wasn't any competition, His S16 does 'bog down' a bit at low revs but een doing high rev roll on's the v6 was still a clear winner.


Nope! Not yet, I hope to get the v6 insured again soon and take it to pod aswell as a couple of trackdays to see how it goes :o



I know the car very well..... Nick who built my engine put it together. Its an S16 on bodies, emerald ECU and a pair of catcams. Nice little unit back in the day. The V6 must be half sensible then! If the V6 is in this sort of territory, I would expect it to pull around a 13.9SQM. That 200BHP 205 of Johns would be capable of a 14 dead with the right launch, if Emeralds rollers are right.

Maxi

Edited by maxi, 16 July 2009 - 05:53 PM.


#42
Tom Fenton

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So, any progress on this conversion? :o :P :D

This one really is going to be a trend setter, I can see it now. The topic is already stirring the community. Or is that just me with a wooden spoon?

Rich, Its much more fun to knock it down a cog. Thats all I have to say really! Im also well aware of the mathematics involved and the correlation of BHP and torque. An engine is nothing without torque, however, in a light FWD car (such as a 205) with a fragile drivetrain (such as a 205) to deliberately go out and produce torque in excess is such a waste. Give me a reason for wanting a mental amount of torque without using the phrase driveability. 170Ibft torque feels very nice and makes a 205 very driveable. It just seems that I am the only who can see this?

Maxi


205ftlb torque from a 1600 that will also happily rev is also very nice.

#43
maxi

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I will just resign to beg to differ with......everyone I think :P :o

Anyway, sorry for clogging your topic fella. While I have been waffling has there been any progress?

Maxi

#44
EdCherry

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My mighty 100ftlb from my 1.4 HDi is amazing. It feels like im moving fast but im really not.

#45
dcc

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half way through the Eurotrip, both George and my self could notice the v6 lost a lot of its power, all of which was a combination of airlocks and water leaks. The heads were deffo. warped, we kept that quite between our selves and a few others, as well as the fact the differential was making more noises than Kate when she sleeps. this is not an excuse at all, as Sarty 240bhp 196ftlb torque monster of an engine was very impressive to keep up, let alone not look like backing off! we admittedly still had a lot revs

along side the s16 at the first day or 2 of the trip, there really was no competition from xx mph - 100mph, the v6 really is quite insane. pulls off in 3rd, and wheel spins in 2nd, 1st is a pointless gear, without any revs, she was losing traction every so often in the dry.

I noticed the front end was very hard to bring out of corners, at speed, and still be facing the direction you intended (George our little spirited drive down that German mountain should prove this LOL :o) but you can deffo see how this engine/shell combo COULD get immense respect with a decent suspension setup :P

good luck Paul, and P.S, DONT copy the cooling setup on the 406!

#46
thirdtimelucky

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Ive had a couple of 205 mi's in standard tune, Georges v6 is in a different league. the main advantage of the v6 is 200bhp for not much money and it's very quick in a straight line, if you can get traction, but with the extra weight in front of the front wheels it's its going to have a negative affect on the handling. Time will tell. Sounds like there will be a few more 205 v6's popping up over the coming months, we need to get some on tracks and see what times they produce, thats the only real comparison, power figures only show part of the story.

Keep up the discussion, its nice to here peoples views and it makes for a good read :o

Ill update after the weekend when there is a bit more progress.

Paul.

#47
maxi

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half way through the Eurotrip, both George and my self could notice the v6 lost a lot of its power, all of which was a combination of airlocks and water leaks. The heads were deffo. warped, we kept that quite between our selves and a few others, as well as the fact the differential was making more noises than Kate when she sleeps. this is not an excuse at all, as Sarty 240bhp 196ftlb torque monster of an engine was very impressive to keep up, let alone not look like backing off! we admittedly still had a lot revs

along side the s16 at the first day or 2 of the trip, there really was no competition from xx mph - 100mph, the v6 really is quite insane. pulls off in 3rd, and wheel spins in 2nd, 1st is a pointless gear, without any revs, she was losing traction every so often in the dry.

I noticed the front end was very hard to bring out of corners, at speed, and still be facing the direction you intended (George our little spirited drive down that German mountain should prove this LOL :lol:) but you can deffo see how this engine/shell combo COULD get immense respect with a decent suspension setup :(

good luck Paul, and P.S, DONT copy the cooling setup on the 406!



Whats happened to it now then? Shame it was rushed and not tested/developed as a conversion before you went. This is the reason why I think this particular conversion of thirdtimelucky's is going to be the trend seteer. I can see a lot of time and effort is being spent already to get everything absolutely right.

Paul, you arent that far away from me, if its ok with you id love to pop over and have a nosey at some time?

Maxi

#48
thirdtimelucky

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Ok quick update, didn't get as much done as I wanted to this week, Saturday morning was a bit wasted after birthday drinks on Friday night :) Jims misses has gone to Peru for a month so he'll be available to help me more in the evenings.

Got my servo and master cylinder in
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Its a bit tight.
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I had to trim the timing belt cover so it didn't hit the servo.
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I then had a go at the gear selector, I used the cable setup from the donor coupe, It only took me 30 minuets.

welded a 3mm plate to the 205 metal gear selector cover, then drilled 4 holes to line up with the coupe gear selector.
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then put the 205 cover back into the 205 and bolted the coupe selector to it from under the 205.
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Im need to find some shorter cables, maybe from a partner van or something. But it workes well, the only real downside is that it takes up a lot of space in the tunnel which will make the exhaust hang low.

#49
thirdtimelucky

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Had a go at the subframe today, It needs a lot of cutting to make it fit, mainly around the diff housing and where the inner cv are. I removed the exhaust down pipes as they looked badly designed and would require more cutting of the subframe, it would make a better job if I made some new ones.
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The subframe does need a lot of cutting and I will strengthen it but I think Ill make a tubular one in the future.

Maxi your welcome to come and have a look as is anyone else interested but if you wait a couple of weeks there will be more to look at.

Paul.

#50
chrisj21

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Excellent progress Paul.

May i ask what master cylinder you have used? the reservoir in particular?

I can see this project will be setting trends! loving the engine bay too.

Chris

Edit: did you receive my pm re the mount?

Cheers

Edited by chrisj21, 19 July 2009 - 06:34 PM.


#51
thirdtimelucky

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The master cylinder and reservoir are from a 306 gti6, Ive got one from a 306 2.0 16v xsi which has the same reservoir so I presume there are others the same. It does fit well, that wasn't planed just put it in cos im going to use gti6 front brakes.

Just found your pm

#52
tagy

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Nice progress Paul, be good to see it when its finished.

Alot of people who were on ET09 and saw George's car seem to have had the same idea :), this conversion looks like it will show how it's done. Wouldn't mind a V6 myself either!

#53
Bonzai

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Whilst i am in awe of the v6 conversion, i disagree with previous statements. I dont think this will be the next big thing purely because its not something you can do on your driveway with your mates over a weekend like the Mi conversion.

What i can see is serious potential for conversion kits i.e. subframes and engine mounts pre-modified on an exchange basis.

And for that reason i would like discount when i come to own another 205 from whoever takes my idea and runs with it :)

#54
Kroged

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205 v6 sound so brutal!

May I ask what needs to be done to the enginemounts to make the engine fit? I already know that the subframe needs some working but I'm a bit confused about the upper and lower mounts. Someone said to me that the upper one will fit and that you need to move the lower mount to make it fit? But then I read about Hilgies 205v6 and he used a upper mount from a 605v6. Sounds like there is as many solutions as 205 v6's :lol:

Btw sorry if all these questions is already answered and I missed them. :D

#55
thirdtimelucky

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I think your right Ben, its never going to be as popular as a 16v conversion and its not a weekend conversion but if you had all the bespoke parts ready it could be done in a week. There's a lot of fabrication needed which takes time but it's not a hard conversion and the few who have done the conversion and released information have made the conversion easer for me and hopefully this thread will help people doing it in the future.

Kroget, the gearbox mount doesn't need any modifications so you use this mount as your start point and get the engine level and square by changing the top mount. With the standard top mount, the right hand side of the engine sits too high and too far back so you need to modify it to correct the position. I think Hilgie modified a 606 mount to fit and others have fabricated there's, Im starting from scratch and making a new billet mount. Ive not done the lower mount yet but if you look in the photos you'll see it sits a lot lower than the standard 205 one so ill need to weld a bracket to the bottom of the subframe.

#56
scottish_lion

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Think I'll just wait till you're bored of yours and buy it ready-done lol. As ever, I'm in awe of your fabrication and engineering skills and I'm enjoying following progress.

May I ask why you didn't put the engine in the 4x4?

Leo :lol:

#57
thirdtimelucky

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When I get board of it Leo ill let you know, I might even take your steel grey in part x :ph34r:
It didnt go in the 4wd because as yet the 4wd running gear wont fit on the v6 engine.

#58
thirdtimelucky

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Update time, George and Meirion (Goliath and Welshpug) poped over last friday with some of Georges modified v6 bits for me to look at. Big thanks to Mei for making sense of my wiring loom saved me lots of time and head scratching :ph34r: George and I had a go at some subframes and got a pair of drive shafts shortened.
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Didnt get much done last weekend as it was my little brothers stag do.
Me, being his best man and big brother made sure he had the correct protective clothing for paint balling :lol:

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After some pointers from George, I've sussed the clutch mechanism, photos to follow.

The top mount turned up today.

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Ive got a batch of 10 being made over the next couple of weeks, and more if there's enough interest, get your orders in via pm.

With the usual mod of using washers to angle up the servo there is about 5mm clearance.
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Using my other 205 as a guide with a 30mm - 40mm drop theres about 100mm ground clearance without the standard downpipes, which ill be making my own.
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This conversion requires a hell of a lot of fabrication and is far more involved than any of the 16v conversions, Im told the wiring is no worse than a gti6 conversion but if you are planing to do this conversion you need to be familiar with a grinder and welder or have a mate that is.

Its all a bit tight.
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#59
welshpug

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Looking good Paul, nice to meet you and Jim, cracking workshop you have there :lol:

Have to say that's one of the cleanest shells I've ever seen, even if the paint is a bit dubious :ph34r:

As you mentioned, the wiring Isn't particularly difficult at all once you figure out how it works, basic principle is the same for most engine management systems, splitting it all down into what is permanent lives and vital wires to make it run makes it far clearer.

really is a case of a bunch of permanent lives, an ignition switched live fuel pump feed, earth somewhere on the transmission, and a starter motor solenoid feed and off you go, BWARP! :D

#60
thirdtimelucky

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Bit of an up date.
Its taking a bit longer than expected, when I started the project I didnt have much work on, but now ive got too much. Im not complaining but the v6 has been a bit neglected.

After a suggestion from George Ive made a start on the clutch fork. The v6's clutch is hydraulic operated from factory and as you know the 205 inst. There have been a couple of solutions to this, one, convert the 205 pedal box to take a master cylinder or to make a device co convert from cable to hydraulic. Ive gone with ditching the hydraulics and going cable all the way.
The way I have done this is to make a new clutch fork and shaft so it protrudes out of the gearbox like the be3 box then I can use a lever and cable like the late be3 boxes with the pull type clutches, the hardest part was getting the box back on the engine, as the thrust bearing is clipped in to the clutch and I couldn't remove it without damaging it and a new bearing is £70 so took a bit if patience to get the fork to hook back in the bearing.

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Could have brazed or silver soldered the original brass fork to some 17mm bar but Iv only got a mig and I like to to everything myself.
Ill make the lever when iv worked out the correct length.

For those that need one ive got a few spare top engine mounts
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