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Gti6 Inlet And Throttle Body On Mi16


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19 replies to this topic

#1
SweetBadger

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After my MI throttle body spindle snapped spitting a screw into the inlet manifold and ending a track day prematurely at the same time, I decided to fit a Gti6 Inlet and throttle body.

Have been running it for a couple of weeks now, thought I'd put together a quick guide for anyone else thinking of doing it, as I think its a worthwhile mod.


You need the following:

- Gti6 inlet manifold, throttle body, fuel rail
- Thin length of Aluminium (got mine from B&Q for 10) to make blanking plate and TPS adapter
- 205 8v oil filler pipe (got a silicone one from stew @ bbm 40)
- Longer top radiator hose - 32mm diameter (got a 60cm long flexi hose from halfords 12)
- Silicone reducer pipe to connect throttle body to AFM: 76mm -> 67mm (ebay jobbie 12)
- As many of the original Gti6 / MI breather pipes as possible
- Some angle iron or similar to create new mounting point for the MI coil (mine bolts to the battery tray)
- 4mm counter sunk machine screws to attach TPS adapter plate to throttle body.
- Silicone sealant
- Cable ties!


TPS adapter plate:

Pictures worth more than an explanation here, quite simple, piece of 2mm thick alu strip cut to size with countersunk holes drilled in the right place and attached to the throttle body with 4mm counter sink screws...

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Connection for ICV:

The 6 ICV attaches to the back of the inlet manifold and the housing connects at 90 degrees - the stepper motor ICV is held into the 90 degree housing by 2 screws.

I removed the whole stepper motor ICV, and blanked off the hole with some more alu plate (sealed with silicone sealant), effectively leaving an open 90 degree connector ready for the MI ICV to be connected.

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Throttle body to AFM pipe:

I pulled the ICV pipe metal connector tube from a spare MI throttle body -> AFM pipe and adapted the silicone reducer pipe to accept it:

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To cut the hole in the silicone pipe, I used the metal breather pipe as a hole cutter, clamping the silicone pipe between blocks of wood and the metal breather pipe in a vice - worked really well.

To be sure of a seal I used some sealant, but I don't think this was necessary.

I had to trim a lot from the length of the pipe to get the AFM to fit as the 6 throttle body sticks further out. Also because the 6 throttle body is angled downwards I had to cut both ends of the pipe at angles to ensure the AFM sat in the right place.

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Oil breather pipes:

Oil filler cap -> throttle body - I did away with the MI T-piece and the standard GTi6 oil breather was the perfect size to connect to the oil filler cap. Note there are 2 breather pipes on the front of the 6 throttle body, I used the larger one and blocked the other off.

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Cam cover -> bottom of oil filler pipe - standard one fits fine



Top of oil tower -> sump - This needed extending, I used a joiner and some spare hose I had lying around



ICV Pipes:

Finding a place for the ICV was a pain in the arse! Eventually settled on the following which works quite well:


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I used one of the original MI ICV/Breather pipes with a >90 degree bend to connect the inlet of the ICV to the throttle - AFM pipe, then a really short run of pipe from the ICV to the inlet (can just about see it in the next pic)

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Top rad hose: the standard one hits the TPS, so you have to get an alternative - I got a 670mm long 32mm flexi pipe from Halfords, a bit long but does the trick...


Coil: there's nowhere to bolt it to on the 6 manifold - I used some angle iron and mounted it to the battery tray.


Fitting the manifold: it fits ok, but you need to remove the locating dowels from the MI head as they don't line up, also if you're using the resonator box, one of the mounting bolts under the manifold has to be removed as it fouls on the off side engine mount.

That's about it, so the finished article:

Posted Image


Performance wise there's an increase, I'd say it was worth the hassle of fitting it - noticeably more pick up lower down in the rev range, and it seems to have a bigger spread of torque - really comes alive at 4000rpm now whereas before it was more like 4800. And of course no more worry of a knackered MI throttle body killing the engine!

Negatives - throttle progression is not as linear as with the MI throttle, and throttle travel is reduced - this can lead to an off/on throttle response if you're not careful; fine for road use but a little worried that next time I get it on track the lack of fine throttle control will be noticeable in the corners.

#2
S@m

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Cheers for taking the time to pen this guide! Nice to have all the info in one place. You have inspired me to have a crack at it next time i find a gti-6 or Xsara vts in a scrappy to pinch the bits off. Cheers! Did you just use an mi16 inlet gasket or a gti-6 one? I have found that the mi16 ones from peugeot don't line up properly (i had to modify every bolt hole on mine).

Sam

Edited by Sam306, 05 August 2011 - 10:10 AM.


#3
SweetBadger

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No worries, got most of the info off here in the first place but thought it would be useful to put a guide together.

Gasket wise, I'm running a ptfe one but I think it's been made to the gti6 gasket design.

You should be fine using a standard gti6 inlet gasket.

#4
sport1901966

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Thanks for putting this guide together mate, absolutely cracking write up, especially like the report on performance effects ;)

#5
S@m

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Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

 

Finally got around to fitting the gti6 inlet on to my mi16 over the weekend, only took two and half years from my post above, so i thought i'd add my thoughts/experiences.

 

I more or less followed Sweetbadgers guide above with a few small changes;

  • I removed the heater unit from the gti6 throttlebody along with the connections for the breather hoses/canister purge valve and blanked it off with a small piece of metal plate sealed into place.
  • I am using xantia xu7 breather pipes from the block and a cut down standard mi16 camcover breather pipe all leading to a 2.0 mi16 oil filler tower (thanks Welshpug for the latter), the original standard setup was in a sorry state and i prefer this alternative, at the moment i am venting it to a (coke bottle) catch tank. This part was largely copied from DrSarty's old project thread.
  • I removed the resonator box and blanked/sealed the hole as per most gti6 owners.

As for a report, it started up straight away and idled nicely, slightly lumpier than before but nothing like my old mi16 with a worn standard throttlebody, immediately there was noticeably more induction noise when revved. The accelerator pedal is much stiffer and i can agree with what Sweetbadger says above about it lacking linearity, doesn't take long to get used to though and i've had no problems in stop start traffic. There is a definite increase in performance, not a large increase but it is there, it pulls better everywhere above 4000rpm, whether that is down to old worn components being replaced or the slightly larger tb and improved inlet manifold design i don't know. Also the sound has changed markedly, far more induction bark than before.

 

WIth regards to clearance, there is less room for the AFM than previously - i've cut down the afm-tb pipe as much as possible but with the angle/position of the gti6 throttlebody it is noticeablly tighter than the already tight mi16 set up. There is about 10-15mm more room between the inlet and the radiator, i heavily butchered the fan cowling when i fitted the mi16 engine and that would still be mostly necessary with this setup, the slam panel is unaltered.

 

The main reasons i undertook this was to replace my deteriorating mi16 induction pipework and breathers rather than performance reasons and i would recommend it to others for that alone, overall it all fitted easily and without issue and i regret putting it off for so long.



#6
S@m

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Here is a picture i took part way through to prove my efforts :lol:, prior to tidying up the fuel lines and fitting the slam panel amongst other things.

 

http://i.imgur.com/WCmJhSm.jpg



#7
GilesW

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Looks good.

I'm about to do this. I take it you used the mi16 injectors as you're still on mi management?



#8
S@m

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Yeah, just standard mi16 injectors and management. I've been looking at aftermarket management for the future though and hopefully this inlet will make that considerably easier given the provision for a map sensor and the gti6 tps.



#9
GilesW

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Ah good.

Cheers for the conformation.



#10
Simes

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I binned (well documented) all the. Mi16 electronics by converting straight to Emerald.
We got an increase of 11bhp after mapping.
I ran gti-6 injectors. Afaik just used tps and air temp sensor.

A nice feeling loosing all the associated motronic crap!

#11
GilesW

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I suppose it's a good halfway house swapping to standalone, but maximising the standard potential is what I'm after at the minute.

As mine is a road legal track focused car I've already made up for that 11bhp but having feck all inside the cabin. Lol.

 

It'll be a different engine on tb's etc for the next evolution.



#12
Edp

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Interesting write up, its an idea i've been toying with for a while. My battery is already mounted in the boot too meaning I have lots more room for the AFM etc



#13
Kenno

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Can the tps from the 6 be used at all please? Think miles used them when using on a Mi?

Edited by Kenno, 02 March 2015 - 10:21 PM.


#14
welshpug

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only when using an aftermarket ecu, if youre sticking with the MI ecu then stick to the Mi throttle switch, as its a switch for wot and idle not a full potentiometer.



#15
Kenno

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Thank you I will go ahead with the mods.

#16
amin

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Hi

Can I fit GTI-6 inlet manifold to my Ew10j4 engine?Is there any modifications i should be done for it?



#17
welshpug

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no, port shape is different, also I doubt it will fit in the engine bay due to its angle and the angle the engine sits at.

 

better to keep the EW inlet and convert to cable throttle body



#18
dcc

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I think the 138 was cable throttle

#19
welshpug

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pre 99 I believe



#20
amin

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It has cable throttle body, i am thinking about change the angle and manifold end shape to fit to the ew10j4 ports. Do you think it is possible?