Super Josh 4 Posted January 4, 2009 Decided to fit the Billies and Eibach springs that I've had sat around for ages and thought it worth freshening up the front end with new TREs, wishbones and strut top bearings whilst it was all apart So with it all together I took it down to my local fast fit place to get the tracking done. Expecting the worst, I was actually quite impressed with the service. It was the manager who undertook the job and he seemed a little more clued up than the average goon in these places. Clamped the steering wheel in the straight ahead position and asked if I was happy with it. Then we discussed the settings and I asked for it to be set parallel at 0°. Now this where the confusion started, he called me over after he had finished adjusting it to show me the settings and to check that I was happy with them. BUT he had set one side to -1 and the other side to +1, his argument being that they cancel each other out to give a parallel toe? I would have thought that he should have set each side to 0°? Comments? Suspension isn't my strong point, but when I took it out for a test drive and it now torque steers like a bastid and when I booted it on a large roundabout it wants to understeer under power. I suppose that I should describe the rest of the suspension set up to give the full picture. Standard front ARB, standard rear TBs and a 25mm rear ARB. Could the rear ARB be causing these issues now that the front has been modified? It gave great turn in with the standard set up, but could it be too stiff now? Cheers Josh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrSarty 90 1 Cars Posted January 4, 2009 Good morning Josh. No bloody idea! However, everyplace I've been to and just asked for 0deg/parallel, have done it no problem whatsoever. Rich Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 549 Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Times font, mmmm..., much easier to read. Was that 1mm or 1 deg. ? If was mine, I'd set it to 1mm toe out. It's very easy to do yourself (with the help of a friend) if you make a U shaped frame that will fit around the wheels. Just measure the difference at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock (looking at the wheel). Edited January 4, 2009 by petert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,621 Posted January 4, 2009 adding fuel to the fire here with my ramblings, but won't setting it to -1 and +1 place the steering rack slightly offcentre? causing more bump steer on lock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
309PUG 2 1 Cars Posted January 4, 2009 Josh, The guy who set your car is talking absolute tosh !!! All he has achieved is to make your car turn in one direction while you hold the steering in the 'straight on' position. Also using the 'U' frame as Petert suggested is open for abnormalities. You can do it your self but the only proper way is rather time consuming and you need to find the centre line of your car, then lay 2 other lines running parallel to the centre line approx 6" outside each wheel, then you can measure the 3 & 9 o'clock positions to set the correct toe. That is a very abreviated description but I hope it gives you an insight, just ask if you want a more detailed method. Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossD 43 Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Did my tracking yesterday by finding the centre line and place bits of string excatly parallel to it like described above. Worked a treat and damn accurate aswell! Click for bigger image I've also got one of those trackrite drive over gauges which gets it in the general area, but cheking it this way, it was still toeing in 2mm too much on both front wheels. Edited January 4, 2009 by RossD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom 0 Posted January 4, 2009 Its posts like these that make me glad we have a decent tracker at work ! As said, the way hes set it is wrong. If you want it niether toeing in or out then both wheels should be at 0, not 1 of each. That may make his printout read 0 overall, but its not what you asked for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron 16 Posted January 4, 2009 There's a much easier way to do tracking than finding the centreline! Here's a very brief explanation: Get 2 lengths of metal tube or wood that are about 1-2 foot wider than the car. Make a notch just in from each end, so that the gap in the middle is 6-8" wider than the car and EXACTLY the same centre distance. Tie string or fishing line (thinner = better) around one so that it fits into the notches. Place 2 axle stands in front of the car and rest one of the tubes on it, place a weight on top to stop the tube moving. Place 2 axle stands at the rear of the car and rest the other tube on it, lay the string in the notch and tie a small weight to the end to keep the string taught. Place a weight on top to stop the tube moving. It should look like this: Then, starting at the front, measure from the string to the stub axle at the centre of the wheel on each side. If the measurements are different, move the tube over so that they are the same. Do the same for the rear, and then check and adjust the front & rear again. What you end up with is a perfectly square box around the car, and all measurements of toe can be taken from this. Then you can measure the toe by measuring from the front of the wheel rim to the string, and the rear of the rim to the string. You then subtract the front from rear measurement to find the toe in/out amount. Positive will be toe-out, negative will be toe in. Easy peasy! You can make it more accurate by using swivel plates and thinner string. With thin fishing line it is possible to get it accurate to 0.25mm, depending on how good your eyesight is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,621 Posted January 4, 2009 one thing to note with Cameron's method, its the side to side measurement you should compare to centralise the lines, not the front and back, as track widths vary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MerlinGTI 3 Posted January 4, 2009 blokes talking pants. There is no substitute to having the car laser 4 wheel aligned (try and find a garage with the hunter dsp600 setup, bodyshops etc..). Farting near the ramp will make the figures fluctuate its so sensitive You will be looking at around £60ish, not bad considering the ramp/mirrors etc.. cost in excess of 20k! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted January 4, 2009 All he has achieved is to make your car turn in one direction while you hold the steering in the 'straight on' position. A cynic might suggest that the manager of a tyre retailer has set a car up in a way that will wear tyres rapidly. However its never wise to attribute something to malice that could just as easily be due to incompetence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron 16 Posted January 4, 2009 Yeah, should have made that clearer, thanks! That's the good thing about the string box, it doesn't matter what the front and rear track widths are. Laser tracking is all well and good but you can do the same at home for nothing. All you need is length of metal or wood, some string, some coke bottles (as weights) and a smaaaall aubergine. Taxi! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Super Josh 4 Posted January 4, 2009 A cynic might suggest that the manager of a tyre retailer has set a car up in a way that will wear tyres rapidly. However its never wise to attribute something to malice that could just as easily be due to incompetence. Well I think it was just incompetence TBH. I went back this morning to get it readjusted and think that he was just clueless He was fine to stick it back up on the ramps and I made sure that he set both sides parallel WOW what a difference, handles how it should now Am really impressed with the Eibach and Billy combination. Josh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
