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Ew Conversion Questions :


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10 replies to this topic

#1
johnhenry

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Evening! 

 

Have read the EW guides and info, they all seem pretty focused on making more power, or the potential to. Im not after tuning more power, I just want something i bolt in and enjoy. Im not precious about originality, I'm on a budget and I'm not after anything too special! 

 

So in that case a EW10J4S (180) or EW12J4 (160)  seem logical engines, more poke in standard trim than the standard 1.9 8 valve with no engine tune modifications. The only stuff required is the whole fitting it in and getting it running which is where my questions come from.  

 

If possible, I would rather the EW12J4 because I like torque and a 2.2 sounds like a fun engine, but again I'm mindful of cost and ease of fitment, so if the EW10 is significantly easier then I'm up for it! 

 

Assume I would be purchasing a EW mount from Satchell Engineering, which states i need a 206 BE gearbox must be used. 

 

1) Brake master cylinder; i've seen photo's of EW's looking incredibly tight on the corner up there, RHD's seem to need a remote reservoir? Servo tight? Any cars to salvage parts off? ‹

 

2) Driveshafts; can someone confirm the situation regarding what ill need with the EW10 and EW12 respectively please? Im running standard 1.9 hubs and track which if possible would like to keep, unless theres an easy option? Have got utterly confused by the whole BE4 thing and various BE4's for different blocks?

 

3) ECU's - lots of people talk about aftermarket ECU's, again please excuse the stupidity, if I'm not after more power, I can just run a 206's or 407's normal ECU and loom in place of the 205's original and just run a standard ECU? or will the lack of 205's airbags, abs sensors and others prevent the ECU from working?

 

4) Steering rack ; will this foul up on the engine at all? 

 

5) The easiest way to get an EW into my 205 

- buy a 206 gti (180)  or 407 2.2 and just have the engine, ECU and extras out of it and install into the 205?

 

Cheers

John 


Edited by johnhenry, 19 October 2015 - 10:39 PM.


#2
Tom Fenton

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I have to be honest, if you need to ask all the questions above, are you not better suited to following a well trodden path, in this case a GTI6 conversion? Donor cars are still cheap and plentiful, 170bhp out of the box, every conversion part easily available.

#3
dcc

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John, it is far from a simple conversion. If anything its not as good as building a decent mi or xu7 with gti6 head, mi pistons and rods and a 88mm crank.

If you want some more info you need to read about it, in depth. There is not a lot of info available. The ew12 has a fairly tame head and very tame cams, it also has balancer shafts and is about 9mm taller iirc. The ew engines sit on less of a tilt, so it in theory has more clearance to the mc. They are be boxes so be shafts (eg your 1.6 or 1.9 items fit). Ecu you could use the multiplexed item, but you need to program it. Rack doesnt foul afaik, but potentially pas rack might, highly doubtful. A 180 is probably a better choice with some throttle bodies and a mappable ecu :)

If you're ever near bridgend give me a pm and call in

#4
johnhenry

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Thanks for the advice and input so far. 

 

Tom, appreciate the question, I'm kind of unseen to go down the route of a well trodden path as the parts for a gti6 are a fair age, and would again mate up to parts of my 205 that haven't really inspired reliable confidence in me over the last 3/4/5 years. Im not an engineer but would like to go through a project and make my 205 capable of lasting for a further 15/20 years in my ownership, so a newer engine which isn't a well trodden path right now, but in the next 3 years may well start to become so, seems like a better option for me. 

 

Ive tried to search and understand as much as I can about the EW and its install into the 205, a lot of the information is aimed at more serious engine builders, and I get that, its a serious engine transplant so you have to have some understanding. Im not that skilled, yet. That information will make sense to people in the trade, such as yourself. I would like to be on that level one day, and the only way i'll ever get there is to ask stupid 'basic' questions and get better.

 

Dcc, thanks, the 2.2's size was always a niggle in the back of my mind, think it's probably safer to look for a Ew10 in this case. Great help will all the points btw (Y), thanks. will give me lots to think and ponder. 

 

Im a non PAS rack so thats not an issue, thankfully! 

Again, excuse the ignorance, multiplex ECU is just the 206's style of ECU connector? I'm only 15 minutes outside of bridgend, so maybe I may call on the expertise as some stage! 



#5
welshpug

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multiplex is the whole car's electrical systems, its digital rather than analogue and the central control units have hissy fits if any of it is missing, the functions can be programmed out I have heard but don't know anyone in the known pug world that does it.

 

the EW12 is only a little bit taller, about the same difference in height from alloy to iron XU engines.



#6
johnhenry

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multiplex is the whole car's electrical systems, its digital rather than analogue and the central control units have hissy fits if any of it is missing, the functions can be programmed out I have heard but don't know anyone in the known pug world that does it.

 

the EW12 is only a little bit taller, about the same difference in height from alloy to iron XU engines.

 

Thanks WP, 

 

EW: if I'm doing an EW swap, i basically will need aftermarket management won't i? just to get around the multiplex, but then everything else taken from the EW car (206 180) can stay and be used? The idea of complicated and pricey aftermarket stuff is also a concern, is there a basic cheaper ECU aftermarket option out there?

 

GTI6 : basically take everything out of a 306's engine, loom and ECU, connect it up essentially run a 306 gti6 in a 205's shell?

 

Thanks in advance, 

​John 


Edited by johnhenry, 21 October 2015 - 08:51 PM.


#7
allye

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You will not be able to get cheap after market management running the VVT, only a handful run it.

Cheap management is a very false economy. It's going to be a £1000 chunk of your budget regardless.

#8
Anthony

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You will not be able to get cheap after market management running the VVT, only a handful run it.

Cheap management is a very false economy. It's going to be a £1000 chunk of your budget regardless.


How is the VVT implementation done on an EW compared to more common systems from other manufacturers?

If it's a fairly simple VVT system that works on PWM then I don't see why it needs to be anything like that expensive, assuming you're talking purely hardware costs. Emerald K3 offers variable (not just simple on-off) VVT control for example and you can pick them up for about £400 second hand, although I've never personally used that functionality and I imagine it could be a pain if PWM based idle control is anything to go by!

(obviously you've mapping costs on top of that £400 together with costs associated with making the loom and the purchase of any other sundries needed)

Someone like Sandy would be the best person to advise I'd imagine, although I'd suspect that the VVT ends up being removed on most if not all of his race engines.

#9
RossD

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The Emerald VVT is only designed to work with the Rover VVC system, according to Dave Walker when I last asked him.

The EW10 system is PWM based - However it relies on the feedback from the cam sensor to verify that the cam is in the correct position. This is why you can't use a simple PWM output - For example you apply the output and the cam advances/retards. However it doesnt advance in proportion to the PWM. It will keep advancing or retarding until it reaches its physical limit. With the feedback loop, you apply the PWM until you reach the desired advance and then return back to the base frequency which essentially 'holds' the current position.

For this you need a control system which can recognise the cam pattern on the end of the inlet cam (Which seems to be different for each manufacturer), know the base frequency of the advance solenoid, know the correct PWM frequency for advance, the correct for retard etc etc. 

 

All of the above is why I simply went with a VVT delete cam profile in the end!



#10
lloydie123

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EW is the way forward, attached is picture of the 205 I recently built.

#11
GazMav

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1) Brake master cylinder; i've seen photo's of EW's looking incredibly tight on the corner up there, RHD's seem to need a remote reservoir? Servo tight? Any cars to salvage parts off? ‹

 

 

 

For my V6 conversion I relocated the Servo using the 406 parts chopped to size. I then had to relocate the coolant tank.