Jump to content

Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
 
 

Photo

Ew10J4S Porting Suggestions


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1
Schumi

Schumi
  • Drivers
  • 86 posts
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Name:Suayb Tozmaz
  • Location:Istanbul, Turkey

Hi everyone.

 

It's been snowy here so I looking inlet port shape of EW10J4S (206 GTI 180 engine) cylinder head. Diagram taken from Peugeot Sport documents. I tried to show my idea with blue line on drawing. Idea is rised short turn radius apex via welded aluminium and reshaped. Also top of port will slightly enlarged but I will not touch behind of valve guide at long turn radius. I will also cut valve guides. I know valve guides already shorter than J4 head. I know lots of professionals prefer start with EW10J4 (206 GTI engine) with smaller ports due more material for better shaping but I want to use J4S head for my project.

 

Its long rod, high comp engine with lumpy high lift cams on solid lifters. Valves stainless steel with 6mm steam. Its not daily drive or rally engine. My power band aim is 6000-9000 rpm or 6500-9500 rpm with 50mm bodies. Its a little big but I'm already looking 48mm ones.

 

mploy.jpg



#2
petert

petert
  • Pitcrew
  • 5,582 posts
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
  • Name:Peter Taylor
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

I'd do one cylinder with Belzona first. Then flow test and assess your work.


Edited by petert, 10 January 2017 - 09:02 PM.


#3
Schumi

Schumi
  • Drivers
  • 86 posts
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Name:Suayb Tozmaz
  • Location:Istanbul, Turkey

Than petert. My idea was dentist filler for flow test I found flow bench but its need UV light but Belzona is good idea. Unfortunately we dont have access to flow bench. So I cant do flow test on head.


Edited by Schumi, 11 January 2017 - 08:53 PM.


#4
Biggles

Biggles
  • Drivers
  • 301 posts
Joined: 25 May 2010
  • Location:Lincoln

Top of the port, downstream of the valve - I'd try it without all the added material first.



#5
Schumi

Schumi
  • Drivers
  • 86 posts
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Name:Suayb Tozmaz
  • Location:Istanbul, Turkey

I have some other ideas without adding material. I will draw and publish them to.



#6
petert

petert
  • Pitcrew
  • 5,582 posts
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
  • Name:Peter Taylor
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

I really don't like what you've done with the area directly below the seat. If the blue lines are correct, you've effectively created a corner at the bottom of the seat. Most gains come from seat work and the first 25mm of the port. There needs be a parallel section under the seat, before the turn, in any head. Given you haven't got access to a flow bench, I'd be concentrating on valve seat dimensions and the area from the guide to the seat. This is how I do Mi16 36.5mm valves/seats. If you can find somebody with a CNC seat cutter, you can program in the profile and at least get the all the seats and guide areas consistent. The cutter does all surfaces in one pass, including the parallel section.

Attached Files



#7
Schumi

Schumi
  • Drivers
  • 86 posts
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Name:Suayb Tozmaz
  • Location:Istanbul, Turkey

Unfortunately there is no CNC seat cutter whole country. Machinist preparing a knife with desired angles and lenghts and cuting seats with that freeze knife.

I'm sending my last drawings. I give up adding material for short turn radius. Only enlarge port slightly to match inlet manifold gasket. Red parts will be removed. Headgaskets port height is 35 mm. Port height on head is 28 mm. I will enlarge to 33 mm height and match to manifold. You can also see manifold drawing of mine. It will be solid CNC aluminium part. I'm also considering make manifold and TB as together as single piece on CNC.

Attached Files



#8
wicked

wicked
  • Drivers+
  • 611 posts
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
  • Location:Netherlands
Garage View Garage

Porting a head is something that needs some craftsmanship, based on (educated) trial-> measurement -> learning and a number of iterations of that, before you get some results. If you lack a flow bench, you cannot measure the results of your work and get no learning out of what you've done. So you have 1 shot to do it, but it will be a shot in the dark, since you cannot evaluate and test your ideas before you do your shot. This is also common in other engineering disciplines. 

(So don't take this too personal, it is not intended that way)

 

My advise would be to keep the port area as is, a lot of engineers have looked at with better tools than you have. The chance you do better with a short in the dark is close to 0.

From your first attempt it looks like you just try to make the curve a smooth as possible. That is too simple. You need to think in pressure and flow. Then you will attack corners from a different angle (just like some corners on the track, just because there is a next corner after it). From the perspective, the bump just before the valve guide could be there to guide the air away from the valve guide. (notice the 'could'; I don't know, but have some engineering background that make me think it could).

 

So if I was doing this project, I would be focusing on the manifold and bodies itself and only machine the mating part of the head, to make the transition nice and smooth. It would already be great if you get the whole manifold done. 



#9
drmo

drmo
  • Drivers
  • 150 posts
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
  • Location:Ljubljana, Slovenia

Schumi, as PeterT has already said, the blue lines are not going to work. You will disturb the flow directly at the valve throat. The SSR on these heads is not that bad as you describe it and I always leave it as is, just smooth it out.

The inlet ports are that way for a reason. Yes, for a stock engine they are to big, but for a race engine with high lift and duration cams they work quite good.

 

This is what I do on these heads for a race engine with peak power at around 8500 rpm:

 

http://drive.google....OXotNG92QzNCbDg

 

http://drive.google....T2dIbG56VnUtbHM

 

http://drive.google....QzZ1ZDVZX2xkb2c



#10
Schumi

Schumi
  • Drivers
  • 86 posts
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Name:Suayb Tozmaz
  • Location:Istanbul, Turkey

Thank you everyone but I think you didnt my last posts attachments. When I doing my first drawing its not just accurate what I was thinking. I simple draw big radius to show path or inlet. Not I look it first drawing and its silly. Its yo far what actually I think. Please look this photo.

 

But I have another idea. I cant be sure its important or not. I'm not using injectors at original position as over flange directly to head. So new idea is filling injector hole / area on inlet port make perfect smooth transaction of inlet manifold to inlet port at head. Is it affect positive side ?

Attached Files