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PaulJLLD

106 Gti Enigne In A 205 Handling And Perfomance.

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PaulJLLD

How do thay compare to a XU? Seen 1 or 2 pics of 205s with them in now and i think thay look nice and compact and moreroom to work on then a 16V XU,I know you dont have the power of a 16V XU motor,but 1.6 16V must perform around the same as a 1.98V XU when both engines are in standerd form?

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djinuk

i looked into doing this conversion, but was put off as its not documented very much. I should imagine that it would be a good choice though, being that due to the saxo vts/106gti being so popular the engines are easy to get hold off, as are the manifolds inlets etc also.

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snillet

Better weight distribution ?

 

TU5J4 must weigh even less then a XU9JA ?

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welshpug

no, they weigh more and use a crap gearbox!

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snillet
no, they weigh more and use a crap gearbox!

 

Agree on the gearbox....

But does it really weigh more ?, it´s Cast iron and have a very heavy head, but the 8 valve XU is significantly larger.

Do you have any weight figures ?

 

I like figures :rolleyes:

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GLPoomobile
Agree on the gearbox....

But does it really weigh more ?, it´s Cast iron and have a very heavy head, but the 8 valve XU is significantly larger.

Do you have any weight figures ?

 

I like figures :rolleyes:

 

I'm sure the comparative weights are on the forum somewhere. Perhaps in the Definitive Weights topic. What makes you think the TU is a smaller engine than the XU 8v? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

The weight distribution is worse with a TU. The whole reason the XU engines are canted back at a 30 degree angle is to move the CoG lower and either above or back behind the wheel line. With the TU engine being heavier and sitting upright, you have more weight infront of the wheels, and the CoG would be higher. Quite how much of an impact that has on the handling, I don't know. It may not even be noticeable to mere mortals. But that's why you are asking, eh? :):lol: EDIT: or rather, that is why the OP is asking.

Edited by GLPoomobile

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PaulJLLD
I'm sure the comparative weights are on the forum somewhere. Perhaps in the Definitive Weights topic. What makes you think the TU is a smaller engine than the XU 8v? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

The weight distribution is worse with a TU. The whole reason the XU engines are canted back at a 30 degree angle is to move the CoG lower and either above or back behind the wheel line. With the TU engine being heavier and sitting upright, you have more weight infront of the wheels, and the CoG would be higher. Quite how much of an impact that has on the handling, I don't know. It may not even be noticeable to mere mortals. But that's why you are asking, eh? :lol::rolleyes: EDIT: or rather, that is why the OP is asking.

 

Um Maybe i should just stick with a XU lump but dont know if i should keep the 8V or go 16V,

I have my old trusty 1.9 8v which i couldnt blow up and i have a gti-6 lump aswell but im put off buy the weight, Will mi16s take them same hammer as the 8v? going in my raod rally car with a quaife gear kit in it so its going to be reving all the time.

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snillet
I'm sure the comparative weights are on the forum somewhere. Perhaps in the Definitive Weights topic. What makes you think the TU is a smaller engine than the XU 8v? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

The weight distribution is worse with a TU. The whole reason the XU engines are canted back at a 30 degree angle is to move the CoG lower and either above or back behind the wheel line. With the TU engine being heavier and sitting upright, you have more weight infront of the wheels, and the CoG would be higher. Quite how much of an impact that has on the handling, I don't know. It may not even be noticeable to mere mortals. But that's why you are asking, eh? :D:P EDIT: or rather, that is why the OP is asking.

 

8v version of the TU is defenitly smaller then the 8v XU, comparing how much space they use in the enginebay and on my garagefloor, and the TU engine i can move around easily by lifting it around, the XU is a bit more tricky to just "lift up". BUT at that point i´m meashuring alloy-block engines.

What i do not know is how big the 16V head TU engine is and how much that engine actually weighs in at with everything mounted to it.

 

But since the XU is sitting somewhat tilted backwards it might actually not be much of a difference anyways, as you say.

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joe1joe

well for insurance reasons i went for the 1.6 16v

very strong engine and makes a nice conversion, but as said sits very close to the front end

here is a pic... iv spent alot of time on my car geting that finish tho......

 

Pug312.jpg

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joe1joe

and wired in the diagnostic light, and plug.... which works! lol

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platty

I quite fancy doing a 16v TU Miami or Steel Grey for my next project. Makes for a very clean and tidy engine bay.

 

Looks good Joe.

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pugdamo

Iv been toying with the idea of doing an XS 16valve and that pic hasnt helped me,i REALLY WANT to do it now,it sits in there so nicely. Im guessing the wiring should be pretty straight forward aswell.

 

Nice job,looks a very high standard :wub::lol:

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PaulJLLD
well for insurance reasons i went for the 1.6 16v

very strong engine and makes a nice conversion, but as said sits very close to the front end

here is a pic... iv spent alot of time on my car geting that finish tho......

 

Pug312.jpg

 

 

That looks nice fair play, What it go like compard to a1.9 gti lump?

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Sandy

I did this conversion in my 205 Rallye back in 2003/4 (using TBs and DTA). Initially I was very pleased with it, but when I drove other 205s and 309s after, I realised how much the extra weight at the front affected the handling. The TU 16v weighs more than the XU 8v and about 7kg less than the Mi16, but more over the CoG of the engine is further forward and higher than the XU 8v or further forward than the XU 16v.

 

It is a nice neat conversion and I don't regret doing it, but I prioritise chassis balance and when I replaced it with an alloy TU 8v in the Rallye, the car was much more fun to drive, despite having less power. The MA gearbox is crap, but you can do the Picasso TU BE conversion to overcome that. If I was to build another 205 though, it would be TU 8v or XU 16v.

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DrSarty
Pug312.jpg

 

That is a nice, clean, tidy, shiny (and red) install.

 

Some very interesting comments from GLP about weight distribution, perhaps proved by what Sandy said. I actually thought XUs were tilted because they were tall. You learn something new everyday.

 

I'd say two things about the above picture though:

 

1) Wouldn't you do well making some sort of heat shield/cold air feed, as that intake set-up you have must be sucking in hot rad and exhaust manifold air all the time? Even just lengthening the tract to place the foam filter/sock somewhere up the front by the slam panel or behind the headlight, possibly with a shield underneath if you placed it above the rad. Just a suggestion. Might improve performance, throttle response, fuel economy or a blend of these.

 

2) XU installs don't have to take up much room. My engine bay is nigh on cavernous now with the 2.2 in compared to the 1.6 and Mi that was in there before. Admittedly the battery's in the back.

 

Mi205021.jpg

Edited by DrSarty

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snillet
I did this conversion in my 205 Rallye back in 2003/4 (using TBs and DTA). Initially I was very pleased with it, but when I drove other 205s and 309s after, I realised how much the extra weight at the front affected the handling. The TU 16v weighs more than the XU 8v and about 7kg less than the Mi16, but more over the CoG of the engine is further forward and higher than the XU 8v or further forward than the XU 16v.

 

It is a nice neat conversion and I don't regret doing it, but I prioritise chassis balance and when I replaced it with an alloy TU 8v in the Rallye, the car was much more fun to drive, despite having less power. The MA gearbox is crap, but you can do the Picasso TU BE conversion to overcome that. If I was to build another 205 though, it would be TU 8v or XU 16v.

 

Ok, the Cast iron TU16V engine is not as neat as the Alloy TU8V then B), by far....

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joe1joe

i new sandy had done the conversion, must have been one of the first! remember asking u what u thought of the conversion on pgac. a while back.. i dont go on ther anymore!!!!!!

 

but anyway i went for the tu16 instead of trying too get power out my tu 8v (xs) and because of the insurance, wasnt much more in price over the 1.6 gti engine too get insure

and i think it goes very well, i would say similar to a 1.9 gti (only driven one 1.9 gti) maybe quicker?? runing the xs gearbox soo nice nipy ratios :)

think the biggest let down of the conversion is the gearbox... they are soo weak!

 

as for the air filter i no its not very good, i just put it on ther like that because needed too just get it finished is my every day car, thats the next thing on the list, and maybe put the battery in the boot,

 

i now have a catch tank aswell not a coke bottle B)

i might do a topic on my car.........

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Sandy

Indeed, get it finished, enjoy it! Down the line a BE conversion would be a good way forward I think. Several of my customers' TU 205s are on BEs, utterly reliable and nice to use. Yours should be quicker than a 1.9 slightly I would think, assuming the exhaust is done reasonably well. Factory TU5J4s with induction kit and a decent exhaust commonly give 130-140bhp and decent economy too.

 

Mine was probably the second one, there was one about already when I was part way through mine; Pug Performance did it I think. People often assumed mine was done by them!!! Grrrrr!

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pugdamo

I know MA boxes arnt the strongest,but the box in the VTR/VTS and 106 GTI have bolted diff crown wheels,they are so much stronger than the XS and other lower model ones as these are only sweated on,maybe try one of these if your having problems,only downside is you will have longer raito's which will kill the accelereration :)

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drmo
I know MA boxes arnt the strongest,but the box in the VTR/VTS and 106 GTI have bolted diff crown wheels,they are so much stronger than the XS and other lower model ones as these are only sweated on,maybe try one of these if your having problems,only downside is you will have longer raito's which will kill the accelereration :(
106 1.3 rallyes also have bolted diff crown wheels and much shorter diff than VTS/GTI :unsure:

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RossD

You sure about that? All the MA 1.6 boxes I've seen (I have yet to see the very latest ones though), the crown wheel has still been pressed onto the diff. The only difference being the planet gears are slightly uprated on the 1.6 models - they use the same planet gear setup as some of the petrol BE gearboxes.

 

I'm going to have to take my box apart now when it comes off to find out!

Edited by RossD

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pugdamo
106 1.3 rallyes also have bolted diff crown wheels and much shorter diff than VTS/GTI :D

 

You learn something new everyday :) . Im guessing that the Rallye has a similar ratio to a 205 XS so that would be a very quick accelerating one to have,gets the thumbs up from me.

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pugdamo
You sure about that? All the MA 1.6 boxes I've seen (I have yet to see the very latest ones though), the crown wheel has still been pressed onto the diff. The only difference being the planet gears are slightly uprated on the 1.6 models - they use the same planet gear setup as some of the petrol BE gearboxes.

 

I'm going to have to take my box apart now when it comes off to find out!

 

Definatly,iv rebuilt a couple,its only VTR/VTS/106 GTI and the Rallye (as iv just been told),i had a 306 XS 1.6 8valve and as you said,this was sweated on as i found out after repeatedly blowing it up. :)

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welshpug

odd that there aren't any bolts listed or that you cannot get the crown wheel separately to the diff body like you can with the BE?!

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