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tomcolinjones

Vtr Block Xs Fast Head Dgas Carb? Possible?

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tomcolinjones

hi, was wondering if it is possible and at all worth while puytting a vtr 1.6 block in the xs? with a decent head and a DGAS weber? ive been thinking about it for a while and was considering giving it a try, but if someone else has already failed then i wont bother lol!

i sugested the carb as it is the same flange as the solex, just would cope with the larger cc.

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allanallen
hi, was wondering if it is possible and at all worth while puytting a vtr 1.6 block in the xs? with a decent head and a DGAS weber? ive been thinking about it for a while and was considering giving it a try, but if someone else has already failed then i wont bother lol!

i sugested the carb as it is the same flange as the solex, just would cope with the larger cc.

 

If you mean putting a TU3S head (xs) on a vtr bottom end then yes it works. Theres a few different vtr bottom ends IIRC and certain ones give fairly high compression, I can't remember which is which though sorry. We built one a couple of weeks ago for an xs, I think it was a silver top bottom end (flat top pistons?) with a lightly skimmed xs head and a pug MLS repair gasket. We've just drilled out the jet on the standard carb. al

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tomcolinjones
If you mean putting a TU3S head (xs) on a vtr bottom end then yes it works. Theres a few different vtr bottom ends IIRC and certain ones give fairly high compression, I can't remember which is which though sorry. We built one a couple of weeks ago for an xs, I think it was a silver top bottom end (flat top pistons?) with a lightly skimmed xs head and a pug MLS repair gasket. We've just drilled out the jet on the standard carb. al

Did this work ok on the Solex? becuase it seems like a lot of work to pu tthe weber on, linkage and setting up vac adv etc

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AlexB

of the vtr engines (3 types theres blacktop making 90hp silvertop making 90 hp and silvertop making 98hp) not sure on codes of each

as far as i know youll need a blacktop as the silvers are the higher compression and valve clearnaces will be very tight

i know to put a 106 xsi/rallye head on them you need to pocket the pistons

the xs head im not too sure on sizes ect so it might fit on

 

my xs im planning to swap the head round rather than the bottom end so im looking at clearances compressions the other way round to you though so i cant give huge input just what i know

 

tbh most of my knowledge is on the tu5j4 (16v) motors as thats what ive messed with so far in my saxo vts and 106 gti

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tomcolinjones

ive gotten a vtr engine from a friend, and a weber DGV ccarb of my mates 1.6 capri. this carb is the same fittment as the solex, or sumwhere near. so im going to put this on witht he standard engine first, bacuse im getting fed up with the reliability of the solex.

i spoke to a chap at skip browns and he said the jetting should be about right, so this week im gunna see if i can get it running tidy, and if all is ok i think ill stick with the xs engine, and get some headwork done. and a nice cam.

if this goes ok ill be selling the vtr engine, black top,

thanks for your inputs.

any ideas for modding the head?

can i polish the manifold? will vtr exhasut manifold fit my xs?

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burr_2000

speaking from experience with my 1360 TU engines, dont throw money at trying to make a xs super quick. Enjoy them for what the are as standard because they are fun. The whole set up of dished pistons and a small valve head is not the ideal starting place.

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tomcolinjones
speaking from experience with my 1360 TU engines, dont throw money at trying to make a xs super quick. Enjoy them for what the are as standard because they are fun. The whole set up of dished pistons and a small valve head is not the ideal starting place.

 

so not much room to expand the valves then?

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burr_2000

i always look as costs as im poor :rolleyes: so try source standard pug parts.

the ideal head is off the AX GTI/ 106 XSI/RALLYE or the TU24 205 Rallye head as they are all bigger valve heads and flow better and cost a fraction of what you will pay to get the xs head to perform.

BUT .... you will have compression issue if you fit the larger valve heads.

The ideal block is alloy like the one you have and ideal pistons is AX GTI/XSI pistons with the crown which raise your compression.

 

AND... you will not be able to fit your solex or whatever carb you are using onto any of the heads above.

 

Good news however exhaust manifold stud patterns are the same.

 

I could waffle all day a search would of told you :rolleyes: .

i think i have calculations for skims if you decide to plonk a big valve head onto xs bottom end.

The good thing about the older type blocks is that the are much more hardier engine than the newer silver tops, stronger crank and rods.

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AlexB
i always look as costs as im poor :rolleyes: so try source standard pug parts.

the ideal head is off the AX GTI/ 106 XSI/RALLYE or the TU24 205 Rallye head as they are all bigger valve heads and flow better and cost a fraction of what you will pay to get the xs head to perform.

BUT .... you will have compression issue if you fit the larger valve heads.

The ideal block is alloy like the one you have and ideal pistons is AX GTI/XSI pistons with the crown which raise your compression.

 

AND... you will not be able to fit your solex or whatever carb you are using onto any of the heads above.

 

this is the route im going with my xs i have an xsi head with a rallye camshaft (essentially a ralle head now)

but i have a slightly different bottom end to what most use as i have a 16v tu5 one and im planning to pocket the pistons and lighten the flywheel and rn the bigger 200mm clutch

 

as for carbs/inlet sandy brown and some twin 40s won my vote lol

 

the vtr manifold youll need to extend to go over the 205 subframe but it will fit the engine fine like

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burr_2000

ah ok cool, i know people sometimes use 1.4 flywheel because its lighter than the 1.6 and use the 180mm clutch but your limited to roughy 130 lb/ft i remember reading somewhere. But i would rather run a 200mm clutch.

 

i ran my original xs on twin 40s, i loved the sound but like a lot of second hand webers i think they were worn and cost me a fortune for internals to get it set up right. i have never regreted ditching them and running TB's.

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AlexB

yea i have dellortos and they cost 89 quid so im expecting a few bits need replacing ect but the car has no ecu ect so bodies are a no go as theres no fuel injection like unless i mess about with looms and allsorts

 

the noise should be fun and its the main reason im doing it tbh i use the car daily so want a good solid but nippy and nice sounding motor lol

 

and the clutch thing id just rather fit the bigger one purely as it will take a little more being a daily like even though it is rather pointless lol

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Tandoh

Ive got my Rallye back from the garage recently and ive had pretty much the same thing done. I got them to build an engine with a xs head with piper 285 cam, VTR bottom end, and a got them to put my twin 40's on it too. Goes like stink! Getting it set up on a rolling road in the next couple of weeks so i should have a printout aswell if you are intrested in what its producing

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richsmells

Tandoh, I saw your Rallye parked at the Texaco garage heading out of Yeovil :)

Edited by richsmells

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tomcolinjones

im going to be road rallying it, so only allowed 2 chokes. i have fitted the dgv now, and got it running and its sounds awesome! on standard jetting it seems near enuf (like the man at skip browns said).

just need to make a throttle linkage and i can go out in it, see how it performs, was a bit of a pain drilling out the holes to make the carb fit onto the tu3 manifold but i got there in the end.

just couldnt believe that after 3 or 4 engine turns it fired up on the choke, and then when i put it on idle after warming it was just sat there ticking over at about 800rpm like no trouble. before adjusting the thing! better than the old crappy solex.

cam is next job.(after filter king and rad top facet) any ideas?

Edited by tomcolinjones

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tdr_1976
im going to be road rallying it, so only allowed 2 chokes. i have fitted the dgv now, and got it running and its sounds awesome! on standard jetting it seems near enuf (like the man at skip browns said).

just need to make a throttle linkage and i can go out in it, see how it performs, was a bit of a pain drilling out the holes to make the carb fit onto the tu3 manifold but i got there in the end.

just couldnt believe that after 3 or 4 engine turns it fired up on the choke, and then when i put it on idle after warming it was just sat there ticking over at about 800rpm like no trouble. before adjusting the thing! better than the old crappy solex.

cam is next job.(after filter king and rad top facet) any ideas?

 

You got any pictures of the engine with the DGV on? Thinking of doing the same as you!

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swordfish210
You got any pictures of the engine with the DGV on? Thinking of doing the same as you!

 

Heres a pic of mine when i had a DGV carb, unfourtanatly it's hidded by the airbox :D :

 

07072007413.jpg

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tdr_1976

Cheers mate :D

 

What i really want to know is, how much of a difference did it make, over the Solex?

 

And is it worth it for me to do the same?

Edited by tdr_1976

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swordfish210
Cheers mate :D

 

What i really want to know is, how much of a difference did it make, over the Solex?

 

And is it worth it for me to do the same?

 

It made more top end and mid range power, low down was about the same. It was much more reliable than the Solex too, allways started and never stalled. If i was doing the same as you then i would use the Weber again.

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tdr_1976

Nice one, I'll start looking for a carb!

 

How easy is it to drill and mate the carb to the manifold, and did you use the std manual choke?

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swordfish210
Nice one, I'll start looking for a carb!

 

How easy is it to drill and mate the carb to the manifold, and did you use the std manual choke?

 

You just need to make the holes in the carb a little larger or more oval and it bolts up nicely. I used the standard choke cable although once i had the carb set up on a rolling road it started nicely without the choke.

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tomcolinjones
Heres a pic of mine when i had a DGV carb, unfourtanatly it's hidded by the airbox :) :

 

07072007413.jpg

 

how did you sort the throttle cable? i got the choke on ok, but cant realy think how to do the throttle with capri linkage on the carb

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tomcolinjones

here it is with no filter <a href="http://s1015.photobucket.com/albums/af275/tmjns796/?action=view&current=08042010367.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af275/tmjns796/08042010367.jpg" border="0" alt="weber"></a>

 

i think it looks a lot smarter than the solex,

just need to sort out a throttle cable!!!!! help me

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tomcolinjones
here it is with no filter <a href="http://s1015.photobucket.com/albums/af275/tmjns796/?action=view&current=08042010367.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af275/tmjns796/08042010367.jpg" border="0" alt="weber"></a>

 

i think it looks a lot smarter than the solex,

just need to sort out a throttle cable!!!!! help me

 

Very sorry that link doesnt work

how do you put pics on here?

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swordfish210

Heres the only other pics i have of it, see wat you can make of them:

 

DSC000882.jpg

 

DSC00087.jpg

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tomcolinjones

ive had a nother fiddle, and the shaft that the throttle is on on both carbs is the same size sort of square fit. ive taken the weber one off and the solex fits on the saft nicely. (the semi circle he cable goes on.) i think it only needs a washer to stop it catching the spring. i have used a piece of wall plate (diy the job lol) and have cut it so it fits on top of the manifold/carb stud and the other end bolts to the threaded hole in the inlet manifold between 3 and 4. i think its 8mm metric thred and ive got a nice long bolt to fit. then ill mount the old cable mount to this with a few bolts and a dab of weld. should be a nice job

will someone tell me how to post pics and i will then show you what ive done.

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