Xs Disaster...

[miamichris 9]

Been plodding on with this, got a bit of time in the garage last couple of days but back to work tomorrow! Thought I had an engine sorted today but no luck, more breakers should be open again tomorrow so I'll get ringing around and see what I can find.

Here's some pics.

 

First off, I removed an old alarm that packed in a while back.

 

Then I removed the Xs sensor loom..

 

Then the Xs fuel tank came out. I undersealed the car over easter but never took the tank out so decided to treat any surface rust and underseal it today, found out I have a bit of a rust hole under the driver's rear seat bench so my bro's going to weld a small patch in for me during the week.

 

 

So, a gti fuel tank should be with me on thursday, cheers John (supersub) and I have new fuel lines and a spare gti fuel pump in "stock", which will be getting fitted while I track down an engine. Managed to borrow a van from work to get around this week, then i'm away on holiday next week, I suppose this should be turned into a bloody project thread now!

 

As Rolf Harris would say, "can you guess what it is yet?"

[danpug 1]

So you are going to be naughty and stick a 'proper' engine in it then?!

[miamichris 9]

So you are going to be naughty and stick a 'proper' engine in it then?!

 

haha! Yes Dan, I blame you for planting the thoughts in my mind back at the start of this thread

 

Was standing looking at the empty engine bay and thinking, "Well I might as well just go 16v now i've started"

 

I've researched this pretty throoughly on here and 106 forums and found a bit of wiring info etc. but its not really a very well documented conversion, even though plenty of people have done it, so I'm hoping to update this as I go and maybe it will help out others who want to do it. I've never done an engine conversion myself, though i'm pretty handy around a 205, so we'll see how it goes.

 

Going to need a few bits of advice as I go/when I get stuck so watch this space!

[Paulmac19 4]

I think the clue is in the Gti fuel tank purchase

so whats ya putting in

[danpug 1]

haha! Yes Dan, I blame you for planting the thoughts in my mind back at the start of this thread

 

When you put your foot down you won't be blaming me! I'm sure you'll get plenty of help on here.

[miamichris 9]

I think the clue is in the Gti fuel tank purchase

so whats ya putting in

 

When you put your foot down you won't be blaming me! I'm sure you'll get plenty of help on here.

 

I'm sure I won't, can't wait to be rolling it out of the garage and sticking the foot down!

 

On the lookout for a 1.6 16v out of a 106 gti/saxo vts Paul, hoping I can find one this week! so sticking with a Tu engine in this 205 for a bit longer, just a faster one

[danpug 1]

A hell of a lot faster!

[Paulmac19 4]

A hell of a lot faster!

 

 

yeah you might notice a bit of difference

[supersub14 1]

Pm sent dude!

[miamichris 9]

[Wallby 39]

Ill be keeping an eye on this thread as its a conversion id like to do one day. It would be great if you could document it well, especially the wiring, as I haven't got the first idea on that!

[miamichris 9]

Ill be keeping an eye on this thread as its a conversion id like to do one day. It would be great if you could document it well, especially the wiring, as I haven't got the first idea on that!

 

Neither have I at the minute

 

But i'm sure I'll get it worked out, found some info on the net about the wiring on 106 forums, so its out there if you look hard enough but as I said, its not a very well documented conversion in a 205! Will do my best to change that.

 

Away on holidays tonight for a week, so nothing will happen until i'm back. Hopefully an engine will materialise while i'm away!

Edited July 16, 2010 by miamichris

[Paulmac19 4]

Take it you got sorted for an engine with John supersub

enjoy your holiday luck sod!

Edited July 16, 2010 by Paulmac19

[swordfish210 20]

Stick some Webers on it and simplyfy the wiring a bit more

[supersub14 1]

Take it you got sorted for an engine with John supersub

 

lol you wouldn't know what id fall in with

[miamichris 9]

Right then..things have progressed

 

Got back from holiday last friday night, Sunday I borrowed the work van and headed up to John's (Supersub) and got the overalls on, here's what happened.

 

 

 

Removal wasn't too bad, apart from John trying to knock me out by dropping a prybar on my head when I was under the car, cheers mate!

 

Engines in the garage, got it all powerwashed and cleaned up the other night and swapped the engine mounts over and removed bits I didn't need etc. Collecting a timing belt kit, water pump, oil filter, fuel filter and alternator belt after work tomorrow so I can change these while the engines still out of the car. Someone has buggered my cam belt cover bolts, got them off but I'll need to sort new ones, maybe stainless button heads or something.

 

For the purpose of this guide for others, here's some stuff I've figured out so far:

 

1. You have to remove the 106 lower engine mount and driveshaft bearing carrier, then the 205 Xs one fits straight on because the mounting holes for it are on the block, but one of the mounting holes will need tapped out as mine was full of gunk from it not having a bolt in it.

2. You leave the bottom part of the 106 top engine mount on the engine and just transfer the 205 Xs top mount arm over. This will need grinding to fit around the cambelt cover, its a trial and error job so just do it a bit at a time.

3. I got the 106 downpipe with the engine, so my plan is to splice both the 106 and 205 one together to make a "frankenpipe" that will clear the subframe and still join to my 205 exhaust.

 

Wirings still terrifying me, haven't really a clue where to start with it. Going to study the 205 wiring diagrams and get my hands on some 106 ones, has anyone got any 106 gti (1998) wiring diagrams by any chance?

 

I'll probably put up another post about the wiring to ask for some help, if anyone can give me any tips, send me a PM sure. I've deliberately ignored it but I'm going to have to sit down and get my thinking cap on about it once I've sorted the other jobs first and there's nothing else left to do

 

Plumbing doesn't look too bad, have all the 106 and 205 water pipes so I'll just mix and match them to see what works. Engine should be going in at the weekend I'd say, once I get the timing belt and water pump changed.

[miamichris 9]

If any mods see this thread, could they move it to the projects - engine work section for me, as its turned into a project now! As long as my amateur engine conversion is worthy of the projects section!

 

QUESTIONS

 

1. We just unplugged the ecu from the loom while the 106 gti was running, as there didn't appear to be any keypad for the immobiliser, so will the ecu be unlocked alright or did we do it wrong?

2. I disconnected the 106 engine loom at the 2 round multiplugs on the passenger inner wing. To wire it into the 205 I'm thinking that I should use both sides of the round multiplugs and a couple of feet of wire from the car loom side, so that if I ever have to remove the engine, the loom can just be unplugged. Is this what people normally do or just cut the multiplug off and solder it direct to the 205 loom?

3. Gearbox - I got the 106 gti box with the engine so just left it bolted on as I intend on using it, can I just use my 205 Xs driveshafts with it? Or is this a bad move and should I use my Xs box instead?

4. If I do use the 106 gti gearbox I noticed that the speedo drive is electronic instead of cable driven, in that case can I just swap my Xs speedo drive over and use the cable? I was looking at it the other night and figured it might work but haven't checked yet.

5. Regarding this 106 gti loom, looking at it there seems to be a few sensors etc. that I won't be using as I don't have the instruments/gauges. Do I just pick these from the loom and remove them at the multiplugs?

6. I'm fitting a 205 gti fuel tank, pump and fuel lines, so I need to go about wiring that in aswell since my Xs never had an electrical fuel pump. If I get my hands on a 205 fuel relay, how do I wire that in? Just mount the relay near the ignition and run wires from the fuel pump, down the car under the carpet and use the switched live on the ignition?

 

Expect more! Sorry they're mostly electrical, it's my weak point and I've never tackled much electics before but I'm trying

[supersub14 1]

Ill be keeping an eye on this lad to see how it turns out!

 

Hope the heads ok haha

[swordfish210 20]

Looking good Chris, you could start a whole new thread in the projects section you know

[miamichris 9]

Looking good Chris, you could start a whole new thread in the projects section you know

 

I know but I can't be arsed!

[miamichris 9]

Sorry I've slacked off on the updates, been seriously busy with this. Worked every night at it after work and pretty much both of the last two weekends, girlfriends about to dump me I think..

 

IT RUNS!!

 

Had a massive list to work through to get it sorted and I only have a couple more things to do before getting it off the axle stands and out for the first drive. Wiring wasn't as bad as I thought after all, I even have the engine management light wired in, rev counter working, fuel pump was easy enough to wire in aswell so I must be doing alright with the electrics! The electrical side of it was quite satisfying actually after all that work and it fired up first time

 

Some pics to do the talking now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[miamichris 9]

 

 

 

Sorry about the iphone pics, they're crap I know.

 

I won one of those Dymo label writers on ebay, just waiting on it being delivered so I can label all the wires up as I take the bits of masking tape off and then put them back into the conduit, so that if I ever have any problems I won't have to buzz through that loom again and know which wire does what straight away.

 

The couple of wires in the connector block are for the coolant temperature gauge but I haven't ran the car for any length of time to see if that works properly yet, everything else is soldered and heatshrinked. The bundle of wires to the left are unused, stuff like diagnostics/immobiliser/oil temperature/oil level etc..Just going to put them inside the conduit out of the way in case I dsecide to use any of them at some point.

 

Can't wait for the first drive, engine sounds purposeful so I think its going to go pretty well!

[miamichris 9]

QUESTIONS

 

1. We just unplugged the ecu from the loom while the 106 gti was running, as there didn't appear to be any keypad for the immobiliser, so will the ecu be unlocked alright or did we do it wrong? Yes, this worked fine, no problems with the ecu so must have unlocked it properly!

2. I disconnected the 106 engine loom at the 2 round multiplugs on the passenger inner wing. To wire it into the 205 I'm thinking that I should use both sides of the round multiplugs and a couple of feet of wire from the car loom side, so that if I ever have to remove the engine, the loom can just be unplugged. Is this what people normally do or just cut the multiplug off and solder it direct to the 205 loom? Yes, get both sides of the multiplug and about a foot of wire length for the wires going to the 106 fusebox. This makes it easy to buzz through the loom to find out which sensors relate to which wires, then find the wires on the 205 that correspond to what you have buzzed through on the 106 gti loom. Get autodata diagrams or a 106 haynes manual or both, and an autodata ecu pin out is very handy as well!

3. Gearbox - I got the 106 gti box with the engine so just left it bolted on as I intend on using it, can I just use my 205 Xs driveshafts with it? Or is this a bad move and should I use my Xs box instead? 106 gti box works fine, 205 xs driveshafts fit straight in, use 205 clutch cable also

4. If I do use the 106 gti gearbox I noticed that the speedo drive is electronic instead of cable driven, in that case can I just swap my Xs speedo drive over and use the cable? I was looking at it the other night and figured it might work but haven't checked yet. I just swapped the speedo drives over and used the cable but don't know if it works yet

5. Regarding this 106 gti loom, looking at it there seems to be a few sensors etc. that I won't be using as I don't have the instruments/gauges. Do I just pick these from the loom and remove them at the multiplugs? I didn't remove them fom the loom, just clipped the ends and put insulating tape over them, taped the unused wires up and put them inside the conduit out of the way.

6. I'm fitting a 205 gti fuel tank, pump and fuel lines, so I need to go about wiring that in aswell since my Xs never had an electrical fuel pump. If I get my hands on a 205 fuel relay, how do I wire that in? Just mount the relay near the ignition and run wires from the fuel pump, down the car under the carpet and use the switched live on the ignition? Don't use the 205 gti tachymetric relay, its too complicated! I just ran two 30A (3mm squared I think) wires from the fuel pump up the passenger side under the carpet and through the main large loom grommet, connected the live to the live feed coming from the 106 gti loom with an inline 10A fuse in a splashproof holder and earthed the other wire at the earth point beside the battery, works fine although might like an inertia switch put in at some point.

 

Expect more! Sorry they're mostly electrical, it's my weak point and I've never tackled much electics before but I'm trying

 

Answered my own questions in the end, see above!

[miamichris 9]

Took it out for a maiden voyage up the lane to my house tonight and all I can say is...f**k me, it pulls like a train!

[supersub14 1]

Told ye the wiring would be easy lol

 

Shes looking well lad!! As usual everything is very tidy. And i know she'll go like fcuk too