Jump to content

Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
 
 

Photo

Xsara Vts Gearbox Into 205 Gti6


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1
MrP

MrP
  • Drivers
  • 39 posts
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
  • Location:Northants, Northamptonshire
I have currently got my gti6 engine out of my 205 and want to put it back in with the vts box attached (which I have)

I would like to use the vts/gti6 clutch system thats attached to the box if its possible, couple of reasons for this

1 - I have a be1 box so dont have the clutch bits that need to be swapped
2 - I have about 3 vts/gti6 clutch plates.

What clutch cable do I need to use? I have some pics of the different boxes, but cant add them?

#2
Tesstuff

Tesstuff
  • Drivers
  • 1,291 posts
Joined: 24 May 2007
  • Name:Daz
  • Location:Leicester
What sort of answers did you find when you did a search for it mate?

#3
MrP

MrP
  • Drivers
  • 39 posts
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
  • Location:Northants, Northamptonshire
I searched and read ALL of the threads I could find on this, pm'd some of the people that seemed to have a lot of knowledge/experience in doing this from these threads with no reply and I also tried to add a reply onto an existing thread rather than start a new one and have someone reply just as you have, but it would not allow me.

I also wanted to add pics to this thread to help others who want to do this in the future

So in answer to your question - I didnt find the answer hence posting this thread.

But thanks for your helpful reply :)

Edited by MrP, 16 March 2010 - 08:50 PM.


#4
CosKev

CosKev
  • Drivers
  • 749 posts
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
  • Location:Oswestry, Shropshire

trying to create a useful thread for others to use


Not many people use the Gti6/VTS clutch from what I gather(and as you have found as you have searched all old threads thouroughly :P ),but if your too tight to do it properly crack on!!!! :)

Pretty sure you need to use your Gti cable with part of the Gti6 cable used on the gearbox end,but I can't be sure sorry,as its a little used way of doin the conversion :excl:

#5
Paul_13

Paul_13
  • Pitcrew+
  • 3,356 posts
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
  • Name:Paul
  • Location:Ruscombe, Reading / Basingstoke
Garage View Garage
Here's a pic of the bit's I swapped over in my conversion:
Posted Image

Sorry about the crap pic, the circle towards the back is the gear selector arm. Both circled items I swapped onto the VTS box.

Double check your clutch bushes, they do wear badly sometimes, cheap from the dealer and they normally stock them.

Bit's you need to swap/use:

Clutch (I used a BX 16v/MI16 clutch as it's a push type not pull)

Clutch cable from 205

Clutch arm from 205

Gear selector arm (circled in blue) The extra gearlinkage and bracket can be removed (11mm bolts/nuts on diff housing)

Inner CV cup from N/S driveshaft off a 306 dt/gti6 etc
^ an alternative to this is to swap the diff over from the 205 box.

Make sure a Crank Alignment Sensor is attached and in GWO (sensor with plug hanging over gearbox ^)

VSS (speed sensor) Part above blue circle. A mechanical and electrical drive has to be sourced (see below)
Posted Image

Edited by Paul_13, 17 March 2010 - 08:50 AM.


#6
CosKev

CosKev
  • Drivers
  • 749 posts
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
  • Location:Oswestry, Shropshire
Paul_13 what do you think of the VTS box???? :lol:

Just putting one in my 309 along with the engine :D

I've done what you listed above,but also did you swap over the pin that gearbox mount is attached too???? :lol:

They are different,and I think you would get too much movement with VTS pin into 205/309 mount after looking at mine :lol:

The thread starter was asking about how do you use a standard Gti6/VTS clutch in a 205 :D

#7
welshpug

welshpug
  • Pitcrew+
  • 30,027 posts
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
  • Name:Mei
  • Location:Bridgend
use a 306 cable that's how Kev :lol:

though I'm not sure if there's enough clearance from the front cable bracket to the rad, I'd personally go for the push type arrangement Paul highlighted above.

I find the ratios quite perfectly suited to the engine myself, 6sp would be nice as the rpm does drop 200 odd in top over the 5 speed MI16/S16/VTS ratios, but I do like being able to turn right as much as left :lol:

Edited by welshpug, 17 March 2010 - 10:19 PM.


#8
CosKev

CosKev
  • Drivers
  • 749 posts
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
  • Location:Oswestry, Shropshire
The 306 cable fits to pedal ok??????

Had a quick look on Gti6 forum and I thought the Gti6 used some sort of self adjuster on pedal/built into cable????? :lol:

#9
Anthony

Anthony
  • Team Managers
  • 18,747 posts
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
  • Location:Swindon, Wiltshire
Garage View Garage
Have a look on Taylorspug's thread about his silver 205 GTi-6 build - he's used the GTi-6 pull-type clutch setup on his 205 and it apparently works very well.

#10
welshpug

welshpug
  • Pitcrew+
  • 30,027 posts
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
  • Name:Mei
  • Location:Bridgend
yeah, fits the BE3 pedal perfectly fine, a friend of mine is using a BE3 205 cable to work the modified clutch arm on a V6 engine in a 306.

#11
CosKev

CosKev
  • Drivers
  • 749 posts
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
  • Location:Oswestry, Shropshire
Ah right. :lol:

Mines all set-up for push type now,Citroen BX16V clutch fitted :lol:

#12
MrP

MrP
  • Drivers
  • 39 posts
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
  • Location:Northants, Northamptonshire
Posted Image

#13
MrP

MrP
  • Drivers
  • 39 posts
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
  • Location:Northants, Northamptonshire
My gearboxes above - 1.9 Be3, Xsara Vts and Gti6. Im chosing to go with the Vts box because of the ratios and after watching shootermcgavins youtube vids of how it accelerates and what it does to Honda Cilly Type R's it just looks brilliant, also if you look at pic you can see how much longer the Gti6 box is!!

Posted Image

#14
2052006

2052006
  • Drivers+
  • 661 posts
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
  • Location:Gloucester
I used the gti6 clutch with mine (VTS box). BE3 cable, spaced out on the end about 20mm iirc - but it did take me ages to work out how to do it and I still struggle to understand how it works :( . Anyway, the clutch action was very nice after doing this - I think it was lighter than my old clutch when I had the 8v and 1.6 box on (and the clutch was new on that as well).

#15
joe1joe

joe1joe
  • Drivers+
  • 388 posts
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
  • Location:Bristol
i thought i would use an old thread to save posting a new topic :D

i have a vts box with my mi16 bx clutch and fitted goes on fine.

but the clucth fork seem too large for the release bearing (as in the distance between the the two pronges being to far apart)

i thought you only needed the clutch arm of a 205 and use the vts clutch fork?

#16
welshpug

welshpug
  • Pitcrew+
  • 30,027 posts
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
  • Name:Mei
  • Location:Bridgend
You need both from a push type gearbox, can be a n/a diesel, 1.8 petrol, 1.9 MI16, BE3 205 etc, they are all push type, VTS is pull type same as the 16v 2.0 engines, TD engines.

#17
dobboy

dobboy
  • Drivers+
  • 2,600 posts
Joined: 25 Jul 2013
  • Name:Jack
  • Location:Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Garage View Garage

I'm currently running a BE1 on a GTI6.

 

I have a spare 1.9 BE3 box c/w all the brackets etc required, and a new BE3 push bearing.

 

I understand i'll need the gearstick/selector part from a BE3 car. Can this be taken off from inside the car? (my scrappies is a bit of a swamp and he's stacked cars on top of his 205).

 

Because mines is currently BE1, do i need any of the stuff mounted on the sub-frame or are these the same on BE1 and BE3 205's?

 

TIA



#18
dcc

dcc
  • Drivers+
  • 3,141 posts
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
  • Name:Dan
  • Location:Bridgend, South Wales

you don't need the gearstick from a be3. just ensure you have the top arm on your BE3 box from a 205. its slightly different shape.

 

to go fro be1 to 3 you need

 

be3 pedal (or modify be1)

be3 clutch cable

POSSIBLY need to modify the pedal box hole to accept th ebe3 cable

BE3 gearbox with correct style clutch lever

BE3 release bearing

POSSIBLY a be3 pressure plate - mi16 / bx16v (if going from gti6/vts clutch)

 

I needed to do the same for using a be4 gearbox from a xsara vts.



#19
dobboy

dobboy
  • Drivers+
  • 2,600 posts
Joined: 25 Jul 2013
  • Name:Jack
  • Location:Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Garage View Garage
Thanks DCC. So I need to be set up for BE3 to be able to run BE4, which is what I'm trying to do.

Is it possible to get the gears from my BE4 put into my BE1 by a gearbox specialist?

I don't fancy taking the pedal box out again, not sure it would even come out with the GTI6 in.

#20
Anthony

Anthony
  • Team Managers
  • 18,747 posts
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
  • Location:Swindon, Wiltshire
Garage View Garage
If your car is an F reg it should have the later pedal box I think - later F's certainly do.

Clutch pedal is easily swapped from the footwell and clutch cable shouldn't be anymore difficult with the GTi-6 engine than anything else if you work from underneath. I reckon the pedal box could be easily modified in situ too if needs be as it's only filing out the hole for the grommit.

Certainly that's the way that I would do it as the BE3 clutch setup is far nicer than the BE1 and parts are readily and commonly available too given that it continued to be used into the 2000's.