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dcc

Salvaging A Scrap Beam

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dcc

We have rebuilt approximately 10 beams in the last year, of those I would say 3 have been in a condition which could be rebuilt.

 

Thats leaving 7 which have collapsed bearings and significant damage to the beam tube. Have any of the seasoned experts found engineering firms which can offer a sleeving service? And then the question of being done at a reasonable cost?

 

The only other option i can see is to oversize the tube and subsequently use a larger outer diameter bearing.

 

Welding the tub to add material and line-boring I guess could be another option.

 

The trouble im finding now is people want crazy money for beams which need a rebuild, to take the chance on a "moving beam" to find out its kaput isn't feasible for their final value.

 

Inevitably this is going to drive the cost higher and higher.

 

I wonder if companies such as IM Axles appreciate the damage the tube takes? Or do they just fit new bearings and offer limited mileage guarantee. Is it likely that they have a repair process for the tube?

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jord294

One day I will look into possibly getting ovalked tubes sleeved.

 

But at the moment I still have genuine new tubes and s handful of mint 2nd hand ones

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gmyorks

ive just been in a position to start and overhaul a rear beam, by the time you track down the parts you require and replace the bits you need it works out cheaper to buy a new complete rear beam.

i can get shafts metal sprayed but the cost of having these done is just too much money. Same as if the beam is internally worn and rusty it just outweighs the cost of having any work done on it, this i paid £120 for a complete beam with the internal bearings in and ends fitted.

Ive had my trailing arms powder coated and the whole lot just need putting back together, think ive been quoted £100 for this.

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welshpug

£120 is far top cheap, the parts alone to refurbish them is near that without any of the bushes or the beam itself!!

 

I would be especially sceptical of that having ever been apart for that price.

 

I have a few ideas about how to sort them, though I have no facilities or experience in doing them, yet.

Edited by welshpug

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dale205mills

Im sure Miles at pug racing has looked into sleeveing damaged tubes before but due to good ones being available didn't take it any further, he still keeps knackered beams. Did I read some where about welding the damaged area and grinding it back so bearing sits in place again?

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toolie72

Dale, with the best will in the world,grinding welds out to anything near round (cos it wouldn't be) would cost too much time/labour

I used to sleeve fairly big motor ends and it's not the actual machining time it's the set up time (say £35p/h)

Throw the elephant in the room into the mix!! Which is tarrarara public liability! Have you been hurt in an accident that wasn't your fault etcetc and it would be hard to justify it, if you were to metal spray it (both kinds) you'd still need a fair sized lathe which you'd ruin in the process (overspray)

So in all it's doable but if new are available then news the way to go

 

Ps everyone wants machining work done for a tenner lol (or a packet of fags)

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dcc

You've missed the point I made, do they check axles arent oval?

 

Anyone could put new bearings into a fudged tube, and when they fail after a few k of use, the defence will be 'the bearings were cheap and failed early' - reality is the tub is dead.

 

I buy snr bearing kits with shafts for about that price. Then take in to account the hours of work to strip an old beam, clean it, reassemble - I dont believe you could get that done for £120.

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dobboy

I might be wrong but I think the tubes they are selling are new?

 

 

"New Part

 

Immediate Dispatch

 

Direct replacement for OE

 

Bearings, Seals and Metal seal ring included

 

Great Value!

 

OE Number - 514844"

 

Also, they highlight what you're saying

 

"Peugeot 205 rear axles suffer from excessive water damage and wear. Normally when repairing the axle the centre tube is too damaged to replace the axle bearings........"

Edited by dobboy

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Anthony

You've missed the point I made, do they check axles arent oval?

 

Anyone could put new bearings into a fudged tube, and when they fail after a few k of use, the defence will be 'the bearings were cheap and failed early' - reality is the tub is dead.

 

I buy snr bearing kits with shafts for about that price. Then take in to account the hours of work to strip an old beam, clean it, reassemble - I dont believe you could get that done for £120.

To be fair Dan, that is just the tube alone with bearings/seals and doesn't include the shafts. Still looks to be very cheap, although possibly not unbelievably so if they're operating on a similar scale to that Polish firm.

 

It is interesting that it claims to be new, whereas other beams on the site do say rebuilt, suggesting that they've had tubes manufactured. Surprised there's enough demand to make it viable to do new 205 tubes given the initial tooling/setup costs I'd imagine are involved, but that's not my area of expertise.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that new bearings fitted in a tube that is oval or damaged/pitted won't last - I've seen that done, hilariously with the void created by the wear filled with mastic(!). If this is new as claimed though, that at least shouldn't be an issue.

 

A couple of years back I did have a beam that had clearly been rebuilt some years previously and on which the tube had been machined and sleeved back to standard size. I've no idea who did the work but certainly proved that the sleeving idea could/does work.

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Anthony

The arms don't appear to be original 205 castings from what I can tell. I wonder what the geometry is if they are indeed new, as clearly it would make far more sense to make one common arm for use on 205/306/309/ZX/Xsara than lots of variants?

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welshpug

quite possibly chinese made with old PSA tooling?

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DamirGTI

Anyone tried filling up grooved beam tube with epoxy metal ? there's a lot of really good quality chemical products these days so been thinking to try that ..

 

Will be fitting bronze bushes instead of the oe bearings thus me thinks that the filled beam area with the epoxy metal should be good enough to hold the bronze bush in place ..

 

D

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dcc

If going for bronze bushes why not over size the tube bore?

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Tom Fenton

Quite an easy job to machine and sleeve the end castings once they are drawn off the tube as they'll go in my lathe. What is more involved is a jig to get them aligned properly end to end when you press them back on again.

At the moment not worth the effort of doing them but will be at some time.

The beam tubes in the link from IM Axles are base model cross tube size. Doesn't affect how the car drives imo but the anal amongst us will want gti tubes.

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jackherer

quite possibly chinese made with old PSA tooling?

 

I think you're right, and if the imaxle ones aren't these certainly are - http://www.marxxon.com/peugeot-rear-axle-Rear-Axle%C2%B7Train-Arriere/Peugeot-205-Rear-Axle-Semi-OE-514844_514842-demi-essieux-train-arri%C3%A8re.html

 

Address: NO. 191, ChaoTian Village Chenjiaping Jiulongpo District, Chongqing, China.

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dale205mills

Dale, with the best will in the world,grinding welds out to anything near round (cos it wouldn't be) would cost too much time/labour

I used to sleeve fairly big motor ends and it's not the actual machining time it's the set up time (say £35p/h)

Throw the elephant in the room into the mix!! Which is tarrarara public liability! Have you been hurt in an accident that wasn't your fault etcetc and it would be hard to justify it, if you were to metal spray it (both kinds) you'd still need a fair sized lathe which you'd ruin in the process (overspray)

So in all it's doable but if new are available then news the way to go

Ps everyone wants machining work done for a tenner lol (or a packet of fags)

Thanks for the big over the top reply.

 

Working as a metal polisher and grinding out welds inside small pipe works with flap wheels and air tools, the job would take seconds, having the use of a machine shop with old school colchester lathes that can turns parts over a foot round wouldn't cost me a penny. Public liability, I don't offer a re beam rebuild service, I have only repeated conservations I have had with well know people in the peugeot community to put ideas into the thread that other people mite not of thought about.

 

Regards

 

Dale

Edited by dale205mills
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Miles

As above really, I've got around 30 old tubes ready for the day when needed, Good ones I still have as well for rebuilds which I'll do when the time is right,

The link above is right and dirt cheap, they keep trying to get me to buy/sell them not really a OE part at all, just cheap pattern part, sure they priced them at under £200.00 complete from memory.

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dobboy

Miles, in your opinion I s IM's 205 beams a cheap pattern part or a pattern part that's cheap?

 

Not sure about their parts but their service is excellent, just today I requested an old invoice and it was in my inbox immediately.

 

Also their delivery and pick up of the old beam was great. With the 106's refurb beams, if you return your old beam they'll give you 1yr warranty. If you don't return your old one, warranty is void, which I think is fair....and collection of it is free, all you need to do is wrap some cling film around it and phone them.

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welshpug

they should last somewhat longer than a year if the parts are good quality...

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dobboy

they should last somewhat longer than a year if the parts are good quality...

 

They maybe should WP, but any warranty at all seems like a bonus to me.

 

I imagine they're quite confident in their parts and workmanship; their beams could be going on all sorts of cars, 1.1 weekly shoppers to first cars to rally cars, so 1 year could be a long time in some circumstances.

 

They'll know themselves by their returns (if any), and will/would change manufacturer of bearings/parts accordingly. They'll also be using purchasing power on parts to keep the final cost down and be competitive.

 

IMO it's a good option for everyday garages who just want cars in and out without too much work, and without having to break a customers bank on an old car that may just be there for a comfort blanket in the case of the elderly customer....... who might not even last as long as the warranty.

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toolie72

Thanks for the big over the top reply.

Working as a metal polisher and grinding out welds inside small pipe works with flap wheels and air tools, the job would take seconds, having the use of a machine shop with old school colchester lathes that can turns parts over a foot round wouldn't cost me a penny. Public liability, I don't offer a re beam rebuild service, I have only repeated conservations I have had with well know people in the peugeot community to put ideas into the thread that other people mite not of thought about.

Regards

Dale

Do it then and post pics for people to follow your idea

Cheers

Ps wasn't being cheeky mate

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petert

Welding and boring would be my preferred option. However, what about cutting and shutting a good 306 beam in the centre?

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dcc

I know Paul did this with his v6 converted 205 - using a xsara beam. I'd imagine it not being to easy to keep the beam lined up well - keeping the splines at the correct angle to each side fir the torsionbars

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