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Map Copying


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17 replies to this topic

#1
Banjo

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Hi, I need a map for my 1.8t mk2 golf running DTA E48 EXP management, i've found a guy with the same engine spec as me using the same ecu, is it possible for me to get a copy of his map and use it on mine? How would I go about it and what format would it need to be in? I'd still have it rolling road tuned but if I can get this it will save me alot of money on the rolling time.
Cheers, Ben.

#2
welshpug

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copy the map onto a laptop then load it to your ECU?

#3
huwjones

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I suppose there are two ways of doing this, but I'm not clued up enough on ECU's to know what will apply.

The easiest way is like welshpug mentioned - through the diagnositc port onto your laptop. The other way is to remove the chip from the ecu and copy it using a dedicated chip reader and software. All you need to do then is burn a new chip to fit in your car. Not many people have this facility though, but I do, if you're stuck :unsure:

Edited by huwjones, 29 December 2006 - 07:24 PM.


#4
miamistu

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Should just be able to do what Welshpug said I'd have thought.

Certainly works that way with Emerald anyway, the map is just a file that can be copied and e-mailed about and then uploaded to the ECU :unsure:

#5
Banjo

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Cool, so he should be able to email it to me?

#6
Sandy

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Yes, just email it as an attachment.

But you must try and ascertain if you have:
The same injectors and/or fuel line pressure, as this will affect the fuelling.
If the crank sensor missing tooth/teeth has the same lead angle. Probably has, but you could be in peril if it's offset at all.
The same MAP and throttle position sensor calibrations.

#7
miamistu

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The missing tooth thing is stored in the ECU isn't it? (that's with Emerald again though but is seems to make sense :unsure: )

#8
Banjo

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So then if I got this map I could load it up and then go through the software I could check tps, map, fuel presh etc on the laptop?

#9
Doof

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This sort of thing makes me wonder why we dont have a section on the 205gtidrivers home page for maps. I certainly wouldn't mind giving my map up. Could just leave your paypal address and people could donate if there is a map that will save them a few hundred quid in mapping.

Surely we could get a standard TT map among others.

#10
Sandy

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A DTA map will contain all the ECU calibrations for the sensors, but the point is, are the sensors on the engine sufficiently similar? Quite possible they are, but the consequences of them being different are potentially severe, so you need to be sure.

I don't think map sharing in general is a good idea. It's okay if the engines and peripheries are near identical and the map is generic enough for the subtle differences, but an accurate map on one engine will always need adjustment to properly match another. I've found the subtlest of differences between engines to sometimes result in important differences in the map. OE ECU's manage these differences by slightly vague maps and/or self learning, knock sensing and closed loop corrections. Aftermarket ECU's invariably don't have these compensations, which makes it a risky business.
The map is arguably the intellectual property of the person that created it. The reason they charge for it is because they have (hopefully) trained and developed the skills that enable them to do it. They may also have invested alot of money in equipment. Mapping may seem expensive, but to do it well is a skill, it's as much an art as a science.
I am particularly concerned by the danger of sharing forced induction maps, the potential for disaster is typically greater than with N/A engines.
I think we have succeeded well enough in the past on this site of putting people in touch with people that have similar set ups and can offer each other useful data, which may include a map. This is better and more helpful, in my opinion, than simply putting maps up for downloading.

#11
d-9

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As sandy said above but didnt clarify in his last post:

The same injectors and/or fuel line pressure, as this will affect the fuelling



You cant check this in the ecu ben, you need to know that its the same.

As a base map to get it running it has potential, but i'd get it to a decent rolling road asap without driving it if possible

#12
Banjo

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Thing is i'm gona be paying 150 quid for this but if that saves me 500 odd quid in rolling road time then I'll go for it, fuel presh and injectors are the same, the only difference is throttle body and intercooler, i've got my afr/egt guage now too so can keep and eye on things..
Thanks to everyone by the way, this forums so bloody handy

#13
jackherer

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The map is arguably the intellectual property of the person that created it.


If I pay someone to rearrange bits in my ECU the arrangement is then mine to do what I want with unless I entered into a specific license agreement that says otherwise.

#14
Sandy

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Thing is i'm gona be paying 150 quid for this but if that saves me 500 odd quid in rolling road time then I'll go for it, fuel presh and injectors are the same, the only difference is throttle body and intercooler, i've got my afr/egt guage now too so can keep and eye on things..
Thanks to everyone by the way, this forums so bloody handy

Forgive me, but paying someone 150 for a copy of their map is a rip off. Spend the money on having it properly mapped or use a copy as a base map for your own adjustments! A different intercooler is a major potential difference in spec, the relationship between intercooler efficiency and cylinder pressure and temperature is critical. The different throttle will also impact the maps.

If I pay someone to rearrange bits in my ECU the arrangement is then mine to do what I want with unless I entered into a specific license agreement that says otherwise.

Would Microsoft let you sell their work on, or even pass it for free? I think it's a grey area, but ethically I certainly think selling copies of someone else's intellectual work without permission is IMO wrong.

#15
Banjo

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Thats what I thought price wise, just found the dta forum, should of looked there first!
Cheers

#16
jackherer

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Would Microsoft let you sell their work on, or even pass it for free? I think it's a grey area, but ethically I certainly think selling copies of someone else's intellectual work without permission is IMO wrong.


Microsoft license their software to users. As they own the copyright I can only do things with it that I am specifically allowed to under that license. However if I pay a programmer to write software on my computer then that software copyright belongs to me unless specifically agreed otherwise.

There is no grey area, its simply copyright law.

#17
smckeown

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I think making maps available to compare them for educational purposes is worth while. Foe example comparing maps for the same ECU and for the same engine with different mods is actually interesting in my opinion. As long as people know not to blindly download them and apply them tpo their ECU in the hope of saving money, there's benefit I think.

#18
Sandy

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There is no grey area, its simply copyright law.

Probably, I can't argue about that, I don't know law. But ethically I would argue it is wrong.

Given how much the standards of mapping I've witnessed have varied, i'm not comfortable with the idea that the others can simply copy, effectively, my developed work. I have supplied base maps to numerous people for free and will continue to do so, but i'm tempted to start pin locking finished maps, if what surely constitutes intellectual work (hopefully <_< ) is not protected by law.