[car_restoration] Saved From The Chavs! Cherry Red Restoration

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

Looking good,keep at it! Reminds me of the rebuild of mine on the drive 2 years ago

[hoban81 7]

Brilliant, Well done mate.

[mowflow 67]

Just wanted to say that this thread opened my eyes to what I could potentially be getting myself into with 205 ownership. I'm not just starting out on a similar journey and if it all goes horribly wrong and the car end up scrap i will be holding you responsible

 

Keep up the good work. Must be good to have the end almost in sight.

[SkyQuake 70 1 Cars]

Update time!

 

So now we get down to the really icky part! The engine. So, here's what it looked like after nearly six months in the garden under a tarp:

 

 

So it was running a little rough when I got it, but no smoke or anything to scare me unduly. I had already spotted the cracked exhaust manifold when I removed the engine, so that was no surprise. What I hadn't been expecting was the build up of white powder corrosion on the aluminium block and gearbox housing:

 

 

I planned to do a partial strip down (everything except the head), clean/paint and then reassemble. So I got stuck in stripping down the engine. Exhaust manifold nuts needed some convincing (procedure: soak in penetrating oil, tap hard with hammer, round off with spanner, swear loudly, split nut with nut splitter). The gearbox wasn't too co-operative either, but all in all, no major disasters, with one exception.

 

Removing the injectors.

 

Now upon reading the above three words, all the pro's on here will already be grinning. They're already anticipating the mistake I'm about to make. There are even several threads on here about it, if I'd been thorough enough to read them. Fairly safe therefore, to assume that the following mistake is entirely my own fault. So, as you know, the injectors sit right at the top of the inlet manifold, where it joins to the head. I removed the fuel rail, and set about prizing the individual injectors out. The first two drew straight out without incident. The third didn't want to budge, and eventually came out with the aid of a screwdriver. The forth however. ah.

 

At this point I should point out that I haven't been taking unnecessary chances. Everything which I have removed from the block has been done with the running vacuum cleaner close at hand. This was mostly to prevent the white corrosion from falling down inside the block.

 

Anyway, the forth injector, had no intention of coming quietly. Rotating and wiggling got me no where. Gentle pressure with the screwdriver also wasn't working. It was at this point I made my final mistake. Somewhere in the back of my head, the wild idea that a short sharp tap with the universal engineering device was the next logical step. Fumbling blindly towards disaster, I placed the screwdriver against the injector, and put the vacuum cleaner down to pick up my hammer. After the very lightest of taps, the spiteful injector disintegrated and flew across the garden, just in time for me to see the injector cap drop down past the fully open valve (damn you sod's law!) and into the cylinder. The rubber o-ring remained in the inlet manifold.

 

The ensuing tantrum resulted in two broken plant pots (flying hammer) and a lot of colourful language. Fearing that I would now have to remove the head, I proceeded to remove the inlet manifold, and other engine apparatus. With the manifold off, I got a better look at the open valve, and a crazy scheme started to form. Using a length of thin flexible tube, and a sizable quantity of duck tape, I converted the vacuum cleaner into a handy valve cap retrieval device. Some time later (and I mean some time) I caught the errant injector cap on the end of the tube, and managed to manoeuvre it as far as the edge of the valve, where I was able to prize it out using a scriber! Disaster averted, but a diversion I could rather have done without!

 

The rest of the engine equipment seemed easy by comparison.

 

So, the cleanup operation. The block itself wasn't too bad. After a thorough gunking and brush down, there wasn't that much corrosion left. So I gave it a spirited wire brushing:

 

 

The gearbox was utterly filthy, and needed some serious desh1tting. Again, I started with gunk and a scrubbing brush:

 

 

I then used a concentrated acid cleaner (intended for alloy wheels), which left it looking like this, just in need of a good wire brushing:

 

 

The various other smaller engine castings I managed to find a more efficient method of cleaning:

 

 

I had decided to paint the whole lot in VHT paint, firstly because it looks good, but secondly because I thought it might last a bit longer than just cleaning. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised with the results:

 

 

 

I even had a go at polishing my rocker cover:

 

 

By which time I had run out of weekend.

 

Next weekend I hope to have the engine rebuilt, and hopefully even back in the car. I'll keep you updated.

 

Mike

 

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

Looking good mate. That paint work looks great!

Just read through your whole topic, v interesting read and you've helped me on a few points. Currently going through a full rebuild myself ( shell is at the body shop now getting back to bare metal and reprint).

 

Keep up the good work!

[SkyQuake 70 1 Cars]

Dear All,

 

Just a quick update this time. Engine Porn!

 

 

 

 

Hopefully next weekend there'll be some pictures of it actually back in the car!

 

Mike

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Your missus is a legend for letting you using the dishwasher. Looking great fella.

[eddie bullit 37]

Your missus is a legend for letting you using the dishwasher. Looking great fella.

Yeah..thats if she actually knew about it my guess is she was out at the time

[samthornton1990 23]

Just read this start to finish! Really interesting read... I'd have lost all faith when it fell of the axle stands. Can't wait to see it all back together. Massive effort on your behalf!

[SkyQuake 70 1 Cars]

Dear All,

As usual, It's been a little while since I blogged my progress, so I've got quite a bit to talk about!

First things first, the engine is now back in the car. My little 20 quid screwfix trolley once again prooved it was worth it's weight in gold, and solved the problem of transporting the engine from the back of the house to the front.

One friend, 20 minutes, three small scratches and one crushed finger later, the mighty XU9JA was reclining back where god intended her.

I quite surprised myself actually, as I managed to match up all of my badly labelled loom connectors with their rightful places on the engine, with only two notable exceptions. Firstly, there seems to be a single spade connector on my coil which goes to fresh air. The other one is even stranger. A brown plug (2 or 3 pin, I think), which comes up from between the gearbox and engine. I think this is the top dead centre sensor (it's a black cylindrical sensor which reads a notch in the flyweel). This appears to have been blanked off several years ago with insulation tape, so I guess it isn't needed. But I thought that the TDC sensor was one of the vital engine management sensors?! Anyone shed any light on this?

Ok, so having fitted the engine and connected it up, I next had to refurb the driveshafts. I'd done a bit of background reading (on this wonderful forum) before getting started, so I knew what to expect. Sure enough the splines holding the spider were peened over, and it needed a little gentle encouragement before leaving its comfortable seat. This was the only difficult bit. Removing the boots, cleaning old grease, inspecting and painting was easy.

Refitting the spider was the exact reverse of removal, but you do have to remember to put the bleeding boot on first! It was then just a case of gripping the shaft in the vice and gently tapping the spider back into place. A tool is needed to do this without trashing the splined shaft, and it turns out that my previously developed brake pipe radiusing tool works a treat. Wham bam, and we have two near new looking driveshafts.

Question for the pros. Why does the passenger side driveshaft have a spring cup holding the spider out of the housing, whereas the driver's side shaft does not?

The keen eyed amongst you will have spotted the pikey cable ties on the inner boots. This is because Q-drive, (professional and organised though I'm sure they are) wern't actually able to supply me with the correct size straps for their boots. Oh dear. I have since replaced the cable ties with something a bit more long life! Then it was on with the new gearbox oil seals, and on with the shafts.

Can't remember whether I posted this or not, but some time ago I spotted the end of my exhaust downpipe was quite rusted, and breaking up. At the time, I decided I had bigger issues, but before fitting the engine, I decided to do some research, and after reading several horror stories on here, became sufficiently scared to remove the pipe and take it into work for some healing.

This presented me with a problem, as the girlfriend was away with her car. I therefore had to soup up my pushbike with a sporty exhaust:

Tricky to ride, mind you. Also, our master welder, Simone, did a magnificent job on the repair.

Next the Mass Air Flow meter needed my attention.

Which, finally brings us to the main event. 98 Ron in. Check for leaks. Turn the key:

It started!! Woohoo! (warning, 30 Mb)

That's all for now folks!

Mike

[welshpug 1,621]

Single spade off the coil is for a dooberrywotsit I fail to recall its name, but its to reduce radio interference, its not 100% neccesary, I can't remember seeing one connected on a 205!

 

the engine speed sensor is purely a diagnostic tool for ages outdated diag equipment.

Edited July 15, 2013 by welshpug

[Kezzer30 40 1 Cars]

As ive said already amazing work ! Now come and help me do my engine bay hahahah

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

Well done on everything so far! Everything is super clean and fresh looking!

 

I've also gathered by searching on here, that if you have an exhaust that has the correct split in the down pipe, then you might find that the centre web has flared out and a run of weld is a good idea.

 

I'm sure this rebuilding stage of the restoration is a lot more rewarding and making up for the painfull hours spent underneath tackling the rust!

 

Good luck!

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

i love how patient you are!

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

The spring is there in the cup to stop the splines from disengaging the diff and also to stop the gearbox oil from leaking out when the cup moves.

 

The os (long) driveshaft is fixed in place by the intermediate bearing

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Past half way, keep it up

[SkyQuake 70 1 Cars]

Well, I was going to give you all a nice update on the good work I've been doing on my carpet and interior, but there really doesn't seem much point now that my cam shaft has seized.

Frustrated doesn't even begin to cover it.

My feelings on the matter are unpublishable, so I can only express my opinions via the immortal words of Homer Simpson:

 

//www.youtube.com/embed/Zm080jEt2hc

 

PS. How the hell do you embed a video in the post?

Edited August 18, 2013 by SkyQuake

[SkyQuake 70 1 Cars]

Dear All,

So, to elaborate a bit on the above, on Sunday morning I suffered a major mechanical failure.

As you know, the engine was out of the vehicle under a tarp over winter, and has just had a partial strip down, clean up and reassembly. Having put it back into the vehicle, I have had it running on three or four occasions for a short duration, with no coolant in it.

So, having just refilled the coolant, I was running the engine to check that it was warming up correctly. After approximately a minute, the engine stopped, as if I had turned the ignition off. No drama, no noise, just cut out. I attempted to restart the engine, and it turned over happily, but cut out again as soon as I let go of the starter. I tried this twice, and then on the third attempt, the starter made a godawful noise, as if the engine was seized solid.

As I'd been working on the water system, I immediately assumed the worst (that I had a block full of water). I whipped the plugs out and had a piece of cloth on a stick down inside the cylinders, and found nothing. I also removed the water block from the back of the block, to check I hadn't done a schoolboy, and left a sock in the water pump! No sign.

I checked physical obstructions to the flywheel, clutch assembly and timing belt, and found nothing.

Next I tried to turn the engine over by hand (with the plugs out, of course!), but it wouldn't budge. At this point I had a panic about my timing, and started hyperventilating about having crashed my pistons into the valves!

I therefore decided to query the forum for gems of information, and came upon GMP's thread which mentions stuck starter motors.

So I proceeded to undo three weekends worth of careful assembly work, and stripped back off the ancillaries, radiator and starter motor. Still stuck solid.

After removing the starter, I used a screwdriver to try and turn the flywheel backwards. I was able to move the flywheel by a small amount without using heavy pressure. It was at this point I noticed that I could take the strain in the cam belt in either direction, but the cam pulley wouldn't budge even a fraction.

Seeking advice from my old man (who is a retired pro mechanic), a seized camshaft was his suggestion based upon my description. I was instructed to remove the timing belt (which I really didn't want to do) and check movement of both pulleys. Timing belt off; the crankshaft pulley was free to move, but as expected, the camshaft was stuck tight. At this point I had a little temper tantrum, posted the above message and then decided it was time for a Chinese and several beers.

So, tonight I removed the camshaft cover and oil rail. I found no physical obstructions to the camshaft. Lubrication was present, but I would say that there was rather less in the oil rail than I was expecting. Plus there was rather more old oil than new.

So I set about removing the shell bearings one by one, to check whether one was tight and restricting movement. Bearings 1 to 3 all looked to be fairly normal to me. Again, lubrication was present, but it wasn't really swimming.

Now we come to bearing number 4:

Didn't need any expert knowledge to identify this one as the problem. On removal of the bearing, the cam shaft was immediatly freed up.

So, there are now two questions I need to get to the bottom of.

1. Why did this happen? I'm reasonbly sure it's a lubrication issue, but I checked the oil rail and there are no blockages. Where should I go next to look for a blockage?

2. What now? My old man is of the opinion that I remove the cam, carefully remove the galled aluminum , clean up the bearings and put it back together, with a healthy dollop of oil. I certainly trust his option, but I'm always going to worry that it'll have knock on effects later on. My only other option is to source another head isn't it?

Have any of you experienced a similar problem? What would your advice be?

Many thanks,

Mike

[Vili 17]

I haven't opened 8v in ages but I think there should be more oil under the valve cover. Did you watch the oil pressure gauge when you started the engine?

[Anthony 1,000]

As said, if that's literally as you found it, then something's wrong - the top end should be pretty much swimming in oil, whereas that looks almost dry.

 

To give you an idea of how much oil we're talking, normally if you remove the cam cover with the engine in the car, you'll spill oil all down the back of the head onto the exhaust manifold - there should be a good "pool" of oil up there.

 

The only thing I can't remember is how much oil is delivered - ie, whether it should take seconds or minutes for that quantity of oil to end up in the head. Certainly after a minute or more running though, I would have expected more oil than you appear to have.

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

Sorry to see this happen.

 

Perhaps others would disagree with me but I think you could get away with carefully smoothing the damged area and rebuilding considering there's still about 3/4 of the contact surfaces undamaged. Be carefull not to rub too much of the undamged surfaces tho.

 

I'd try to inspect / clean / blow out the oil feeds while the cam is out, and if you do get it back together then try to buy / borrow an oil pressure guage to see how the pumps performing. Although even if it did show good oil pressure, I'd still be paranoid that if the oil way was blocked just below that bearing, then the gauge could show good pressure, yet the bearing would still be starved of oil (hence the 'blow out with an air line' suggestion above).

 

I've been through the thread before but cant remember if you've already had the sump off in the past... if not then perhaps worth doing to see how clean things are in there?..

 

Hope you get sorted.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

If you remove the damage aluminium and swarf, tidy it up and see if it runs on the old belt ect what have you got to loose?

 

If the head royal chews it self you've lost nothing as you were tempted to buy a new head anyway, if the whole engine goes bang you've just lost some labour (Nothing really special inside is there) making it fit in with the rest of the car. 8v's are a plenty unfortunately, and you can easily re use most parts even if the things has a catastrophic failure.

 

I would go with your dad and give it a go mate.

[SkyQuake 70 1 Cars]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your comments. Unfortunatly the plot has thickened somewhat! But I'll answer the questions first:

Vili & Anthony - That was indeed how I found it. I didn't remove the rocker cover until the following day; I don't know if that has an effect, but I certainly didn't soak up or clean any oil prior to taking the pictures. There was a noticeable mixture of new clean oil and old dirty oil, which leads me to believe hardly any new oil had made it up that far.

I must concede I wasn't watching the oil pressure gauge. I was too busy squeezing pipes and trying to bleed the coolant system!

Davy & Ed - Agree completely, thanks. I did have the sump off, and it was really pretty clean. There was only one small metallic fragment that I noticed. I realise that you can't tell much from the image, but here's what it looked like:

I'll get hold of an oil pressure gauge for when (if) I put it all back together. However:

This evening I removed the camshaft in order to make a start on cleaning it up. In doing so, I noticed a number of things I didn't like the look of. Let's start with the big one:

The cam pulley screw was really seriously tight. I almost rounded it off removing it, but once I had eventually got it out, it was pretty well brand new. It was therefore a bit strange that it was so tight. Upon removing the pulley, the first thing I noticed was that the position key has been completely sheared off. The other half was still present in the camshaft slot.

As far as I can tell, this means one of two things:

1. When the camshaft seized, the engine momentum/starter motor force was sufficient to shear the locating key, allowing the camshaft pulley to rotate, tightening its screw as it went. This is a worrying possibility, as it does mean I could have had a piston strike and potentially have valve damage.

2. At some stage in the past, some muppet has sheared the locating key, and refitted the pulley in a different location, before tightening up the clamping bolt as tight as possible. They have then re-timed the engine, for wherever the pulley ended up, ignoring the dowel. If you look at the photo above, a mark is visible on the pulley at 100 degrees approx, almost as if the loose part of the key has been vibrating against it for some time.

I guess the only way I'm going to find out, is to borrow one of those USB inspection cameras from work, and see if there is any visible valve marks on the piston. Presumably, if I've struck valve, the easiest thing would be to get another complete head and switch them out? Whereas if it looks like everything's ok, I'll give the repair method a go.

So carrying on, I removed the camshaft and gave it a good clean up. There's more damage to the bearing surface than I was hoping for; I was expecting the steel shaft to mangle the aluminum bearings, but it's more like 50/50.

At least the majority of it is sub-flush, and I should be able to get away without getting it re-ground.

The bearing seat is pretty well galled, but it isn't that deep, and I hope will be recoverable. I'll see what I can do with some emery cloth and a piece of wooden rod.

After removing the camshaft and oil seal, I noticed something a bit strange. It would appear that a lump of the casting had broken away below the oil seal seat. Anyone seen this before? Looks like the wall thickness was fairly thin anyway, but I'm not sure what's caused this. It almost looks like someone has tried to remove an oil seal using a cold chisel and mallet!

Has anyone seen this before, and is it something I need to worry about? I haven't noticed any sign of the oil seal leaking, but that could be because (as we've already noted) the oil hasn't made it up this far yet!

I haven't yet found any kind of obstruction to the oil channels. I'll poke a piece of wire down the feed to the oil rail tomorrow, and see how far I can get it. The old man suggested that with the cam off (and all the valves closed), I should be able to turn the engine over on the starter and see if oil comes gushing out of the feed pipe. This sounds fun. More fool me for painting the block, and trying to get everything to look pretty!

So I suppose all I can do now is clean up the damage, put it all back together and see if it runs or not. If it sounds sweet, I'll have to take my chances, otherwise, I'll have to get hold of a new head.

Many thanks again for your advice.

Mike

[jackherer 543]

Funnily enough they all have that hole in the casting there.

[welshpug 1,621]

As above, its an oil drain.