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Xu5 J4 Conversion


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48 replies to this topic

#21
Sandy

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1.6 crank has 45mm big end journals.

#22
snillet

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Before i put in the modded JAZ engine in my car i was running the stock XU5M BDZ engine but with a XU9JAZ DKZmanifold and a XU9JA D(???, the 128hp one..)camshaft, head on the BDZ is the same as on the DKZ and the 128hp engine so itīs equipped with quite large valves for a 1.6, was revving fine up to about 7500rpm like a little mule, but after that the valvesprings started to "slip"...

#23
Batfink

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right i'm going to dig up this thread rather than start another. For some reason I was dreaming about engines and I was wondering if you could deck the mi16 block so you could use a standard mi16 piston and rod with a 1.6 crank.

Would it be a simple case of decking it 15mm??? (difference between 73 and 88mm cranks)

Of course you will need to do the same to the liners but I feel there is something blindingly obvious that I am missing that will make this idea impossible.

#24
Hardcharging

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I was thinking along the lines of ...(Batfink's question)

Loosing 15 mm off the block,
.

Would mean finding a cambelt 30mm shorter.

I have toyed with the idea of a 1.6 16 v but it seems a bit of a never ending story :blush:

#25
Batfink

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i've just been chatting to Matt at QEP and he said that the mi16 rods wont fit the 1.6 crank - you have to use 1.6 rods with the 1.6 crank - which is a shame!
Certainly its a case of if you want a 1.6 mi16 then dont
If you need one (for a race series etc) its complicated and expensive lol

#26
Sandy

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Decking the block that much really isn't practical.

#27
Batfink

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I was trying to come up with solutions so I could use a 1.6 crank with 1.9/mi16 rods and pistons as decking a block would surely be cheaper than custom parts but I did not realise the big end journals were smaller on the 1.6 than the bigger capacity variants...plan scuppered as you still end up needing custom parts whichever way you look lol.

Just for clarification i think Matt said you would need to deck the block half of 15mm so 7.5mm - still a lot though
He suggested milling down a 1.8 crank to 80.8mm stroke or something then looking at using either gti-6 or possibly s-16 rods (52cm and 48cm??) though our chat was only very brief as they were shutting up for christmas.

#28
B1ack_Mi16

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I was trying to come up with solutions so I could use a 1.6 crank with 1.9/mi16 rods and pistons as decking a block would surely be cheaper than custom parts but I did not realise the big end journals were smaller on the 1.6 than the bigger capacity variants...plan scuppered as you still end up needing custom parts whichever way you look lol.

Just for clarification i think Matt said you would need to deck the block half of 15mm so 7.5mm - still a lot though
He suggested milling down a 1.8 crank to 80.8mm stroke or something then looking at using either gti-6 or possibly s-16 rods (52cm and 48cm??) though our chat was only very brief as they were shutting up for christmas.


Hehe, still sounds pretty dodgy the whole plan :P
Custom Crower rods made to spec cost approx 375Ģ + vat and I would think that muct be the neatest solution, and good rods are never a bad thing anyway.

#29
taffycrook

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I have spoken at length to the Fella who built the two cars I have come across with a 1600 mi16. He has retired and only builds engines for special customers now. But he still will not give me the exact details of the custom parts.
But he used std 1600 cranks in all but the highest spec motors. Well balanced I may add.
The pistons and rods are the key to the whole thing, the cams are solid lifter jobs but we all know the limits of the mi16 when it comes to cam selection.
The expense of the custom parts means this is no longer a viable engine for cheap motorsport.
You can get 200 bhp 1600's for much less outlay. Why not find a rusty crx vetec. That has just about all you need to make a very light strong and powerfull motor.

#30
Batfink

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As ever rules get in the way. To make the car eligible for as many series as possible I have to use Peugeot parts or start again with a different car.
I guess I could go to using a 106 or a saxo but I personally think the xu engines are superior to the tu engines when hunting for big power - it will also give me the flexibility to move up classes by stroking the engine to get 2.1-2.4litres when I want to compete at a higher level. Yes I could move to another marque but I have no experience or knowledge with any so really have no idea what works and what doesnt so there would be a lot of experimentation needed to build a class winning car.
Black_mi16 - I think you are on the right lines - the rods are the key to how to go about the build..
Taffycrook - very interesting about the crank and sounds like the standard one will cope depending on the cam choice.

#31
kyepan

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batfink, you up for karting next friday :angry:

winter series :lol:

#32
Batfink

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looks a laugh :angry: not sure I can finance another drive till later in the year though. Itching to do it again though so we will have to organise another team

Edited by Batfink, 22 December 2007 - 08:39 PM.


#33
ginjaspeed

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right i'm going to dig up this thread rather than start another. For some reason I was dreaming about engines and I was wondering if you could deck the mi16 block so you could use a standard mi16 piston and rod with a 1.6 crank.

Would it be a simple case of decking it 15mm??? (difference between 73 and 88mm cranks)

Of course you will need to do the same to the liners but I feel there is something blindingly obvious that I am missing that will make this idea impossible.



With this conversion, you have to use high compression pistons, otherwise the engine won't make good power as the reduction in capacity requires a reduction in the head chamber size. Using the standard Mi piston will result in too much needing to be removed from the head!

It is possible to modify the 1.6 rod to suit the mi style piston, this does require the block being decked, but only by about 38 thou of the top of my head!

I have one of these engines sat in my garage awaiting a shell for it to be used again, if would like to know any more don't hesitate to ask.

#34
petert

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It is possible to modify the 1.6 rod to suit the mi style piston, this does require the block being decked, but only by about 38 thou of the top of my head!


You could bush the 1.6 little ends and get custom pistons made, but given you'll be ringing it's neck (8000+) to make decent power I'd be getting new custom rods as well, with 22 or 23mm diameter pins. It's really not a project you can do cheaply.

You still need a dome type piston, not a flat top, to get a decent CR.

Edited by petert, 23 December 2007 - 01:10 AM.


#35
ginjaspeed

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You could bush the 1.6 little ends and get custom pistons made, but given you'll be ringing it's neck (8000+) to make decent power I'd be getting new custom rods as well, with 22 or 23mm diameter pins. It's really not a project you can do cheaply.

You still need a dome type piston, not a flat top, to get a decent CR.



This is what i've done with my engine, however she make great power way before 8000, so i'm not worried about the rod 'issue'

#36
renault 17

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With this conversion, you have to use high compression pistons, otherwise the engine won't make good power as the reduction in capacity requires a reduction in the head chamber size. Using the standard Mi piston will result in too much needing to be removed from the head!

It is possible to modify the 1.6 rod to suit the mi style piston, this does require the block being decked, but only by about 38 thou of the top of my head!

I have one of these engines sat in my garage awaiting a shell for it to be used again, if would like to know any more don't hesitate to ask.


What sort of power did your engine make and what did you rev it to?

#37
ginjaspeed

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160 bhp at the wheels @ 7500, i rev her to 8 max as she tails off a little after 7500.

#38
welshpug

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just remembered about this thread and checked the Bebo link, then saw this vid;

http://www.bebo.com/...chmentTypeCd=VD


boy does that sound good!!!!

any updates on how successful it has been?

(if that link doesn't work its on here - http://www.bebo.com/karclub )

#39
vickiw106

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does anyone of anybody that would be able to do the work in the midlands area

#40
welshpug

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could try Neal at DES-developments :rolleyes: