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dcc

Salvaging A Scrap Beam

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Richie-Van-GTi

Ive literally just bought a 106 rear beam (refurbished) of IM axles. They offered it with a 2 year warranty and needing the exchange beam. I have the beam ready to go so long as they do not need the axle pins knocking out. Wiill watch this thread as others seem to of dealt with them already.

 

On the OP questiojns though, IM state their parts are reground back to OE spec so if thats the case they must fill then grind back. Has anyone checked if they offer that service independant of just selling replacement parts? Then you know you are getting your std GTI bits back and can inspect / measure the results

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Miles

106 beams are unlike 205 tubes the pin is in the tube so no ovaling to worry about really, Why they have old beams back with supplying these pattern one's is odd as it would save a huge amount of carriage. The few beams I have seen always have wrong spec bolt/s, nut's used.

 

Other things to note are torsion bars, Whats the quality like compared to OE, much like the performance torsion one's

 

Warranty, is it from date of purchase as with most things so 1 replacement and that's it so to speak?

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dcc

Having recently had a brand new imaxle fail on a rally after 2 stages, we rebuilt it and inspected the old items. we think the tubes are manufactured from genuine tooling with cheaper materials. The bearings however are damn aweful, very cheap, and infact they failed spectacularly on the above rally car. Having measured the shaft, which was brand new when IMAxles built the beam, there was no notable difference to the shaft and measured fine. The bearings IMAxles use ultimately cry out shouting "buy cheap buy twice". The bearing cage had collapsed, a selection of needle bearings had deformed, they were crap.

 

One main issue is obviously they dont have the proper tooling to set the clearances for the beams. Several shafts pressed into trailing arms or 106 axles have been done poorly and means the shaft doesnt sit on the bearings properly, posdible cause of the failure above? The shaft was 4mm out of where it needed to be!!

 

That being said, a friend recently bought a bare 306 IMAxle tube (fitted with bearings as stabdard when you buy bare). We rebuilt with a set of bearings and shafts. It came painted and looked brand new, circa £120.

 

Possible cheap option for future rebuilds with powdercosting?

 

We use SNR items fitted with proper dealer workshop tools and have yet to have an issue.

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jord294

Just to let forum members know. I bought one of these new 205 £120 tubes through eBay. It was for a customer who was on a very limited budget and his own crosstube was excessively worn.

On building, one side allowed the trailing arm to slide nicely into the bearings already installed in the new tube. As for other side, I did have a lot more trouble getting it to slide in. It did eventually, but there was a definite resistance when rotating

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Thijs_Rallye

The beam tubes in the link from IM Axles are base model cross tube size. Doesn't affect how the car drives imo but the anal amongst us will want gti tubes.

 

I disagree. When using a base model tube the handling will suffer, especially whilst braking hard. I found that one out the hard way. The thicker cross section determines handling characteristics whilst braking and hard cornering. The latter is definitely do-able, but the braking could be a nasty surprise. We've found this out this on our track day car, after replacing the axle with a standard GTi thickness one hard braking improved massively. The tube flexing is considered and incorporated in the design by Peugeot.

 

I've seen this tube over here as well: https://www.tricompetition.com/fr/chassis/trains/train-arriere/traverse-essieu-arriere-205-gti.html I reckon it is the same one as on alibaba.

 

The OE part number is from a phase 1 GTi, the later ones have a different OE number. It would be interesting to learn the differences.

 

I've seen differences between the axle "swings" as well between the base model and GTi. (Studs off center on the GTi ones)

 

 

Thijs

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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Anthony

Are you sure that there wasn't something amiss with that base model tube or something else (mounting bushes perhaps) that would have been replaced at the same time as fitting the GTi tube?

 

I've ended up using quite a few base model tubes over the years on GTi's and have never noticed any ill-effects like you describe, which is what makes me wonder if there was something else amiss - beam tube bent, mounting bushes tired or similar?

 

The front studs are only different on 1.9 GTI (disk braked) beams btw - 1.6 GTi (drum) use the same as base models.

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Thijs_Rallye

Mounting bushes in the swings are new, BakerBM rubber mounts, bearings / seals are new, arms are from a GTi, no play, no heavy spots, only difference to the axle that was swapped over was the actual beam.

 

It's only when braking heavily whilst cornering forces are in play. (i.e. braking before a sharp turn in a long turn on track, or when you suddenly see a tractor after a blind turn while driving like an idiot (my most recent surprise :P)). The rear stepped out immediately and I had to judder the steering wheel to keep the rear in check.

 

Unfortunately I've lost the article about the 205 suspension, but it stuck in my mind that the tube flex is a part of the design, hence handling on the GTi. Which I found astounding at the time.

 

1.6 and 1.9 GTi have the same thicker tube.

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welshpug

never noticed any difference in braking behaviour myself either.

 

 

well not in a detrimental way anyway! typically they do handle so differently from a totally knackered beam to a freshly built one they can surprise you, but there certainly should be any adverse effects, not like a base model chucks you into a hedge when you brake hard on a fresh beam does it?!

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Thijs_Rallye

Agreed :lol: , but it was not "regular" hard braking, but instantly braking to the grip limit, which does make a difference in how the forces come into play in the suspension.

 

Anyways, I am going to build a "new" beam somewhere in the start of next year with a GTi tube and partially strip the other one in the process. All I can say now is that is what I've noticed using these axles and Peugeot did increase the thickness for a reason ;).

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dcc

My car runs a base model rear beam with gti atb tbs and trailing arms, more confident feel to it now than ever before...

 

I dont think your problem is with the axle if it has been built properly.

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hoodygoodwood

What exactly is the difference between a GTI and a base/lower spec model beam tube , is it the thickness of the steel in section or the diameter of the tube ? I still have the bare tube removed from my 309 1.3 XL so I will have to dig it out and try to compare . I wouldn't imagine Peugeot would alter the spec of a component like the tube for no reason they would just be giving them selves a parts headache , it must be for a reason - safety , handling , realising the base one was not up to thicker TB's ?

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jord294

309 crosstubes the same centre diameter on all models

 

More chance of finding decent 205 base model crosstubes than gti versions

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Thijs_Rallye

For the 205 GTi the center part has a bigger diameter. For the 309 I don't know exactly.

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Kane

Under heavy braking the rear end is unloaded so I don't think you'd have an issue with the tube flexing. I'd expect that you would be more likely to have issues while accelerating through a bend due to load transfer to the rear as the car squats.

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jackherer

Under heavy braking the rear end is unloaded so I don't think you'd have an issue with the tube flexing.

In theory that is true but I have a photo of my old Xsara VTS under very heavy braking that was kindly supplied by a policeman parked at the side of the road in a van...

 

It did have a pretty ropey rear beam but the static camber wasn't excessive and the ride height was normal, however under heavy braking the wheels were at a crazy angle and tucked in the arches!

 

post-3-0-57918100-1507152644_thumb.jpeg

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DamirGTI

Pretty good shot for an policeman !

 

Does look strange , worn beam mounts/bushes possibly ?!

 

D

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jackherer

Pretty good shot for an policeman !

He had a special camera in his van designed for taking photos of fast moving cars!

1663446582.jpg

Does look strange , worn beam mounts/bushes possibly ?!

It was definitely worn but the point I'm trying to make is that there was weight on the rear under heavy braking so the beam is definitely loaded under those conditions despite what you'd think would happen due to dynamic weight transfer. Edited by jackherer

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Anthony

The braking effort of the rear brakes makes the rear trailing arm rotate upwards (ie suspension compress) going forwards and rotate downwards (ie suspension extend) going backwards.

 

Pull the handbrake whilst moving (obviously not too firmly with drums!) and you'll see.

 

Interesting just how much it has squatted down at the rear in that picture though :)

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DamirGTI

Lucky over here we do not have such modern photography equipment (not yet at least !) , though instead we do have an s*** load of interceptors which are a bit tricky to spot especially at night ..

 

Interesting this about suspension load , yes one would first think it'll load the front axle and unload the rear while braking hard .. must dig my book of wisdom to see what's up with that .

 

D

Edited by DamirGTI

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Mac Crash

Is wear/ovality in the crosstube discernible to the eye or just apparent when you come to fit new bearings?

I've dismantled four genuine Gti beams recently and none of the crosstubes appear worn... although all bearings were completely intact prior to removal.

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Anthony

Generally, intact bearing casings means the tube is OK - obviously assuming someone hasn't previously fitted a new bearing to a fubar tube!

 

By eye you should be able to tell as well - the damage will be on the upper surface, pitting or worn oval, the later typically evident looking at the slightly raised lip inside.

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welshpug

Generally, intact bearing casings means the tube is OK - obviously assuming someone hasn't previously fitted a new bearing to a fubar tube!

 

 

indeed! I did come across this very recently myself, very lucky that we had a spare bare tube.

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