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rex

605 Srti / 205 Gti Conversion

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rex

Hi everyone,

 

It's been a while since I last posted here - I given up the 206 RC conversion because I ended up fixing the car and selling it in order to make a bit of coin of the realm.....mostly to finish this bloody 205 that's been annoying me for the last 10 years.

 

Today, I bought a complete 605 8v turbo petrol with 80,000 kms on the clock with a right shunt up the arse. The plan is to stick it in my 205 in place of the 1.9 lump.

 

My questions for anyone with prior knowledge are:

 

Can I keep my Shriek high-lift camshaft (originally for the XU9) with this particular engine?

 

Is it worth keeping the final drive from the 605 as I am using the BE3 box from the 1.6 gti?

 

Where and what can I use as an intercooler? I have a whopping, all aluminium baby off a 300 TDi Land Rover in my posession which looks like the best bet, but where is the best (easiest) place to put it whilst keep the 205 completely standard looking from the outside?

 

I was also going to keep the Mi16 injectors I already had on the XU9 with the big adjustable fuel valve but must say I'm not impressed with the Solex inlet manifold...?

 

I'm out there in the dark with this one - I know it's possible having seen one finished a few years ago at the standing start races in Bordeaux and could kick myself for not looking harder, but I'd greatly appreciate hearing from anyone who's done this conversion, or who has any advice to give other than my questions....

 

Best regards to all,

 

Rex, France :P

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sonofsam

Hi Rex

 

Dont worry, you wont be in the dark for much longer :P All the info you need to do this conversion

is right here on this Forum and the search facility :D

 

Myself included and many others on here have completed this conversion, and there are quite a few

just starting out aswell.

 

 

As regards to the cams, this was discussed very recently to http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=70801&hl=, although personally i would

worry about the installation part first!

 

Nearly everyone who has done this conversion uses a 1.9 gearbox, myself included. A 1.6 box would be too

short, unsure of your final drive choice? maybe someone else will know? I plan on using a Turbo diesel final drive myself as this will extend 3,4 and 5 by 10% although saying that, the 1.9 box is well suited to the engine imo.

 

Im afraid using a massive intercooler and keeping the front end standard will be a bit of a mission, not saying it cant be done, but i have messed around with a few IC's lol and trying to get a huge one to fit

was difficult, let alone trying to make it look OE. Again have a good search and it will bring up the most popular options.

 

Standard injectors are fine and capable of 190hp, unless you plan on running bigger boost? What dont you like about the manifold?

 

Atleast on the 605, you get wire numbers so im led to believe, to assist you with he transplant and wiring upto the 205.

 

 

My project thread http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...urbo+conversion

A very recent topic http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=71019&hl=

 

Hope that helps,

 

Regards

Sam.

Edited by sonofsam

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rex

Hi Sam,

 

Thanks for your quick reply.

 

"Dont worry, you wont be in the dark for much longer All the info you need to do this conversion

is right here on this Forum and the search facility "

 

Ah, nuts and bolts don't hold me back but damned computers....

 

Thanks for the photos...that intercooler looks wild. Sadly, modifying road cars here in France is a highly illegal practice, and whilst that's never stopped me, heh :) , she's got to look standard if only so I don't feel like a twat driving it :P

 

What is so worrying about the installation part? I can't see any problems getting it in there, though my mechanic here will be doing the wiring part as I HATE electrics. The only problem I can see is the wiring loom from my 1.9 (RHD) and the bits from my scrapper which is obviously LHD - though after a quick skesh it seems Peugeot didn't do their heads in with it too much as a 1.9 LHD has the fuse box under the steering wheel - in the same place as a RHD??

 

I'll worry about the G/box later - though I'm told by and old boy out here that the best combination with any XU set up is a 'box from a BX sport (1.9 8v carb fed) with a final drive from an Mi16?

 

 

"What dont you like about the manifold?"

 

It just looks so damned peasy. Probably just me though. My 1.9 had the inlet modified to take parts and airflow meter from a BMW 635i with a diode ripped from the ECU which made a HELL of a difference with the S series pistons and the cam....it's a shame I fell out with this old French boy as he really knew his s*it.

 

"Atleast on the 605, you get wire numbers so im led to believe, to assist you with he transplant and wiring upto the 205."

 

The wiring is what really freaks me out, but my employee sez it's a walk in the park. I'll let you know. Heh, if you have any more pictures please feel free to send them to garage-riberac@orange.fr

 

A decent bottle of rouge is on offer to anyone who helps out :D

 

Best regards,

 

Rex

Edited by rex

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rex

Also.....

 

...does the turbo and manifold fit without any mods? This one has a water cooled turbo but I'm not sure if they're all the same.

 

Since my earlier post, I've got the engine out of the shell and on the floor awaiting a good clean (though everything looks like new - one of the benefits of living somewhere with a decent climate :P ) and it looks j-ust for a fit.

 

Also, what hoses did you get rid of? The cold start I noticed but what else can I bin? I've taken photos with my 'phone of you want to see them but haven't the faintest idea of how to upload them. As I was saying earlier, I'll fit the lot when it's completely finished with the cam timed up and all but hopefully we'll get somewhere near next week if the workload isn't too heavy :D

 

Rex

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rex

PS..sorry...

 

final drive from which TD? 1.7 or 1.9? Or are they the same?

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sonofsam
does the turbo and manifold fit without any mods? This one has a water cooled turbo but I'm not sure if they're all the same.

 

Are you intending to fit the turbo + manifold onto a 1.9XU or fit the complete 2.0L turbo engine into a 205?

If it has watercooled turbo, wich I think they all do on these engines, its best to plumb it in correctly.

 

And yes the whole complete engine does fit, like any other XU, although you will have to swap the top drivers side mount for one from an Mi16 or 306 XSI depending on the year/code of your 605 engine.

 

All the neccesary info for actually mounting the engine is in those links I posted. You will also have to swap the lower engine mount(the one the driveshaft goes through) for one of a 205.

Seeing as you have LHD? you may not have to extend the lower mounting fork, so the compressor housing

of the turbo does not foul the brake servo,(you could try using a base model servo if you encounter problems) although you may encounter problems re-angling to exhaust flange! As it will be very tight up against the bulkhead if the engine is not tilted.

 

The 2.0L turbo does not have a cold start valve, instead it has an ICV (idle control valve) and I wouldnt ditch that :P Im off the opinion, that it's best to start with, to try and keep the all the original hose's/breathers etc as they were found in the 605, and there are a fair amount! As for some of the boost hoses, well, they will need to be custom built depending on what intercooler you want to use.

 

Most of the wiring can be done/joined at the two brown multi plugs by the heater matrix if you have them?

The 2.0L turbo engine does not run an AFM either, it has a MAP sensor built into the ECU, that coupled with the ICV gives rock solid idle :D

 

To upload pictures, you will need an online gallery, such as Photobucket.

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rex

Thanks again Sam.

 

Obviously I have the whole car (605) but I got the impression you had ditched the cold start from your photos.

 

I was intending on putting the 2.O litre lump (it's the 150 bhp version) in place of the 1.9 lump. I see it has the ECU similar to that which I fitted to another 205 with 405 S series parts to get shot of the airflow meter which yeah, gets rid of all those idling problems. :P

 

Now it's on the floor it looks a lot more engine than what I've got in the 205...I guess it isn't going to be the quick-fix I thought it was.

 

Busy right now but I'll update this thread with photos when I can. Thanks for your help agin, man.

 

Rex

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Hilgie

Forget the Schrick cam...it has lots of lift, but also overlap....which is definately what you not want on a turbo engine.

Even with the 130bhp cam it will lose power. The 122bhp DKZ cam is the one to use (more lift than the 2.0T cam, but no overlap like the 130bhp has).

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rex

Hi Hilgie,

 

Thanks for your post and news that that expensive camshaft and pulley are headed to the round file. (Sigh)

 

Apologies for my lack of 205 jargon, but are you talkng about the catalyst 205 GTi camshaft?

 

What about the 405 S series camshaft? I know they're different from putting one in my 1.9 a few years back with the flat pistons which worked well and I know I've got it lying around somewhere....

 

Thanks for any input. Oh, and that's a pretty impressive list of 205's you got there :unsure:

 

Regards,

 

Rex

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Hilgie

Hi Rex,

 

Thanks :)

 

The catalyst 205 GTi camshaft is the one to use.

 

The 405 S series might work as well, but I think some of those had the 105bhp DFZ engine. Which has less lift.

 

Hilgert

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rex

Hi Hilgert,

 

Thanks for your reply. As I'm snowed under with work the job's ground to a halt....well, tell I lie I started removing the wiring loom from what's left of the 605 and got depressed with it all. M-an, there's some wires in there. :wacko:

 

I'll take Sam's advice for now and just concentrate on getting it in there and running before worrying about the cam I think. I'll update this thread when I'm in need of more help ;)

 

 

Regards,

 

Rex

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Ant

I did my conversion from a 605 lump.. You wont need half the wires that go from the engine bay to the fuses board... You only need the ones that plug into the brown 205 plugs and the speed sensor wires...

 

The keypad can be bypassed by wiring a switched live to pin 27 on the ecu

 

This is the wiring numbers for my 605

 

old topic for my wiring

 

BUT ive seen another 605 loom that was different, so you are best using a multimeter to follow them back and check

 

Regards

 

Ant

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Hilgie

most looms differ per year or even car....some have the keypad lock some do'n't have an immobilser at all and some of the later engines have the inductionring immobiliser. Also lots of differences between 406,605,806 and XM, Xantia,Evasion

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rex

Hi Ant, Hilgie,

 

Thanks again for the replies.

 

The donor is a LHD 1992 605 going into a RHD 205, with no keypad. I know on the diesels before the HDi's we just unplug the code pad once you've started the car and it's by-passed. All the wires come in from the engine bay to the fuse box which is right behind, but everythng then goes to the dash in the middle and then returns. There are plenty of brown plugs but it would seem at first glance I'm going to have to keep some of both fuseboards?

 

Anyway, too much work here still. Maybe towards the end of the week I'll have moved on with it a bit...

 

Cheers,

 

Rex

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rex

Ok I read your link Ant, thanks.

 

After reading that, people are talking about the lambda sensor and it's pre-heater....surely everyone has dumped this??

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sonofsam

No mate keep the Lambda, otherwise the fuelling will be out!

A simple boss can be welded into the exhuast to fit a sensor, and don't solder any wires going to or from it either.

 

Yes looms are wildy different as said, my RGX 406 main harness is huge in comparison to a RGY XM one I picked up.

 

I have kept both main engine fuseboxes for now, till I know what every single wire does :wacko:

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rex

Hiya Sam,

 

OK, I'm glad you said that - I've just fished it out of the metal pile out back. I was going to copy the top of the standard 605 down-pipe in stainless, adjusted for angle - I will add this into the plan.

 

Heh, and here was me thinking this would be easier than the 206 conversion :wacko:

 

Thanks again, Rex

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Ant

Rex,

 

you dont need both fuse boxes..

 

The way i did it was to remove as much of the 605 as poss.. I then made a note of the wire numbers and worked out what was needed.. The ones that werent needed, i cut off before the fuse box... ie from the connector to the fuse box, lose them.. it leaves less to mess with.. Then work out from the engine bay the ones you need to go to the 2 brown plugs on the 205, ie coolant, swithed live etc..

 

That will leave you with a lamba sensor fuse ( 2 wires to attach a fuse connection to ) and about 3 or 4 for the speed sensor. FOLLOW these back to the speed sensor, and splice them to you loom

 

You can then lose the rest..

 

Probably best thing to do i make a note of each wire number from the engine loom and work out what you need..

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

 

Ant

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Hilgie

As above. And you are lucky have sourced an engine from a Pug. If it was a Citroen all your wires are green and black and NO numbers :wacko:

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rex

Hi Guys...

 

Thanks again for the advice. Couple of other questions, sorry:

 

Have you re-located the battery to the boot or elsewhere for space?

 

What (apologies for lack of technical language in English) do you describe as the "speed sensor"?

 

Have you all got a crazy intercooler like Sam, or have any of you managed to squeeze something in elsewhere to keep it looking standard (which is what I want)? I'm trying to plan this all out before I do anything and the space behind the front bumper is limited due to the oil rad I plan to fit...

 

Regards to all,

Rex

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sonofsam

HI rex,

 

My battery is in the usual position, most others have too I would think too.

 

lol, i dont have that big crazy IC anymore, instead moved onto a much smaller one from a Toyota MR2

For my application, its pefect. Lots of pictures here http://projects.205gtidrivers.com/sonofsam

Although the most popular option, is to drop the radiator and fit a cosworth IC where the grille usually sits.

 

Gearbox speed sensor? Its like a normal speedo drive, that has a fitting for the speedo cable(square drive) and also an electrical sensor, for the loom. Still a little unsure what its for, either controls fueling on overrun

or has something to do with the boost regulator solenoid? There is also a speed sensor module, looks like a big relay, I think they work in conjuction with each either via the ECU .

 

Can get you a picture of the gearbox speed sensor later on mate if you wish. what ever you do, dont go to Peugeot to buy one, they are over a £100 new! Got a feeling Ant made his own.

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Ant

As sam said, i had to make my own...

 

Reason was that the sensor on my 605 box had 2 wires... Every other sensor ive ever seen has 3 !!!

 

You can get a sesnor with the 3 wires and cable off a lot of pugs / cits , but finding a sesnor with a cable with 2 wires was near impossible..

 

In the end i used the original 605 sensor, and carfully filed the top off the part where the turning mechnism slides in. There you will see a square hole, which your speedo cable can slot into.. just use your exisiting 205 casing and plastic weld this on top of the 605 sensor.. But you will only need to do that if your loom has 2 wires.

 

Anyone actullay know how to test if the sensor is working though ? Mines wired and the car runs fine, but it seems to run the same with the sensor attached or unattached

 

Regards

 

Ant

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rex

Hi again everybody,

 

OK, the project has been put to one side for a couple of weeks but I'm back on it today - wiring loom from the 605 has been trimmed down correctly (I hope :rolleyes: ) and the 1.9 lump is out and on the floor. After looking at what I've got left:

 

a ) I do not have the two famous brown plugs and the plugs I have from the donor loom do not correspond to the existing brown plugs. Heh, I knew it wasn't going to be easy.

 

b ) The plugs I have from the donor loom obviously don't want to fit into my 205 fusebox.

 

I'm still tempted to keep both fuse boxes like Sam until I know what each and every wire is - I presume those who have not kept both boxes used the orignal plugs from the 205 in a chop and re-wire affair?

 

Anyway, if that doesn't sound remidial enough, I have another question:

 

I can't seem to find the ID plate to determine which engine I actually have (for the upper engine mounting). Is their any other way to determine this other than the aluminium plate which appears to be missing?

 

Comments as always will be appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Rex :D

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TEKNOPUG
Although the most popular option, is to drop the radiator and fit a 2WD cosworth IC where the grille usually sits.

 

Yep - do it this way and use a Guttman grill and there will be no outward differences in appearance.

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sonofsam
Hi again everybody,

 

OK, the project has been put to one side for a couple of weeks but I'm back on it today - wiring loom from the 605 has been trimmed down correctly (I hope :rolleyes: ) and the 1.9 lump is out and on the floor. After looking at what I've got left:

 

a ) I do not have the two famous brown plugs and the plugs I have from the donor loom do not correspond to the existing brown plugs. Heh, I knew it wasn't going to be easy.

 

b ) The plugs I have from the donor loom obviously don't want to fit into my 205 fusebox.

 

I'm still tempted to keep both fuse boxes like Sam until I know what each and every wire is - I presume those who have not kept both boxes used the orignal plugs from the 205 in a chop and re-wire affair?

 

Anyway, if that doesn't sound remidial enough, I have another question:

 

I can't seem to find the ID plate to determine which engine I actually have (for the upper engine mounting). Is their any other way to determine this other than the aluminium plate which appears to be missing?

 

Comments as always will be appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Rex :D

 

 

Hi Rex,

 

The engine code on my engine was located here in the area I have highlighted for you, to the right of the oil filter, its very faint on mine in perforated/dotted letters.

 

 

You only really need to find the corresponding wires that come out from the injection double relay plug

to get the engine started, a very recent post has named them, as I cant remember them off hand,.

 

I shall be getting rid of those fuseboxes in the coming weeks, so from whats been said already, it looks like you only need to keep a fuse for the lambda probe,.will update you as I go if you like.

 

Sam.

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