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colti

Xu10J2Te Reoccurring Rear Main Oil Leak.....

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colti

Morning oil I mean all☺.

Firstly I'm experienced vehicle technician with over 20 years workshop experience.Therefore I've rebuilt the odd engine in my time, but my 205 2.0 8v turbo has the aforementioned reoccurring leak that is driving me potty(despite 3 rear main seals,hockey seals and an engine rebuild)!

Wondering if anyones come across it on these iron block XU motors and if the fact that it's slightly tilted(for turbo to bulkhead clearance)is causing my leaks.

Also noted drain hole(behind oil seal)in the rear main seal housing that will be higher due to engine tilting.

Running oil level at half way on the dip stick.

Only does it when revving up.

I know what leaking hockey seals look like(mine were split originally)as they used to leak when the car was dormant.

Now needing specialist advice......

Edited by colti

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PhilNW

Is the crankcase pressurising?

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colti

Not at all.

Piston rings were barely bedded in from its first rebuild 10 years ago.

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welshpug

where is it leaking?

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PhilNW

Are the crankcase breathers working?

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colti

Oil separater/filler in order as no pressure from dipstick tube when revving.

Oil catch tank fitted that never fills up.

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dcc

Is seal being inserted too far

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welshpug

or hockey stick seals being cut too short.

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colti

Well I'm getting a dab hand at dropping my gearbox on my back.Out it comes again.

Thinking I may drill another drain hole lower in the housing behind the seal incase the oil from the main bearing is backing up too high...

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PhilNW

I had a problem with leaks on the sump gasket eventually traced it to the small vacuum pipe on the inlet manifold being blocked causing the crankcase to pressurise

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dcc

If it is a persistent leak and you just want it sorted,a reblock isnt too much work.

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colti

Morning.

Thought i'd make a point of actually posting the fix to my problem..

So when installing your rear main bearing cap,MAKE SURE YOU USE SEALANT ON THE HOCKEY STICKS AND REAR MAIN METAL TO METAL SERVICES!

I have in my time rebuilt a couple of these engines and used sealant on previous occasions,but that was nearly 10 years ago!

My mindset that I got into was that if i'm using new hockey seals I shouldnt need sealant as well(Sealant is a cock up).

Having stripped it down,getting on for 4 times and having a LLOONNGG look at the rear main cap the penny dropped.

Rebuilt,run up and dry.

Regards....someone who should know better. :blush:

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petert

Yes, I butter up everything with 1211 and use it as a lube, then finish off with a fillet on the inside.

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colti

Update.

Oil leak returned with vengeance after a couple of spirited test runs.

Oil getting on the flywheel whilst running then dripping out of the bottom of the bell housing from front to rear,ie the flywheel is throwing the oil everywhere.

Stripped it down to find the main seal had been pushed out of the housing and was hard up against the back of the flywheel.I put this down to either,exessive oil build up behind the seal from the main bearing or mistake of re-using previous seal.

So.....Rebuilt with new crank seal,hockey seals,sealed with generous amounts of RTV grey sealant.And it still leaks!!!!

I am reluctant to start drilling an additional oil drain off hole in the bottom of the bearing cap as tilting these XU10's doesnt seem to generally create this problem...I dont believe.

Cant see any breather issues as all vac pipes intact with no crankcase pressure.

I am seriously considering admitting defeat and selling on.

Edited by colti

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Bakes100

What make of crank seal are you using? When mine leaked I replaced it with a Payen one that was much better quality than the one that came off.

 

Is there a groove in the crank surface? Is the crank surface outside of the tolerance for the seal? (undersize).

 

Did you put a small amount of sealant across the top of the hockey sticks? Did you wait 24hrs before trimming down the hockey sticks?

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welshpug

I've used many Payen seals without any issues at all, they even come with the fitting guide piece.

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wicked

Is there a groove in the crank surface? Is the crank surface outside of the tolerance for the seal? (undersize).

 

 

 

Could also be a groove in the axial direction. A friend of mine had that; the groove started to eat the crank seal and the leakage always returned (3 times..).

Polishing the crank fixed it.

 

Edit: is the crank balanced? Sure it is not warped?

Edited by wicked

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Tom Fenton

It has got to be a crankcase pressure issue to do what you describe. Any wear in the seal housing will also contribute. I would check both parts carefully. Also consider centre punching the outside of the seal housing to help retain the seal, I would also glue it in place with bearing fit or similar.

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colti

I had the crank polished as part of its rebuild.So seal surfaces are mint.

I cut the stick seals flush with the sump seal surface before it dries.Any gaps are taken up by the RTV sealant on the sump faces.

.And the breather system is deffo seeing good vacuum.Crank end float isnt excessive as new thrust bearings went in.

I used Victor Reinz and Glaser seals previously.

Convinced its the crank seal thats getting excessive oil buildup behind it.But Cant believe I need to be drilling extra oil drain off holes.

Got my eye on a bare block I've spotted but enthusiasm for another strip down as part of a reblock is now dwindling...

Wheres my SORN form?!?!

Edited by colti

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welshpug

hockey stick seals ahould be protruding by 1mm.

 

you really shouldn't need any more than the standard oil drains, if the seal is falling out then doing as Tom suggested will likely sort it.

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farmer

,


Sorry wrong thread chaps

Edited by farmer

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petert

I cut the stick seals flush with the sump seal surface before it dries.

?!

This is the error in your ways. You have to leave the hockey sticks long, uncut, for 24 hrs, as they shrink back to their original length after being stretched during installation. Then cut them, leaving 1mm protrusion. Edited by petert

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colti

Hmmm.I was aware of the 1mm rule,but to my logic,I didnt think it would make much difference as the sealant would fill in.Though I will do it that way next time out.

That may explain the ends being torn at the heel of the hockeys......

Ordered genuine Citroen bits this time as no more expensive than aftermarket conversion set.

Thanks all.

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Henry Yorke

I had a Payen cam seal which was apparently good quality but kept leaking. Bought a genuine Peugeot one and the leak went away. Payen one was about 0.5mm smaller on overall diameter and had significantly less grooves then the Peugeot one.

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welshpug

Hmmm.I was aware of the 1mm rule,but to my logic,I didnt think it would make much difference as the sealant would fill in.Though I will do it that way next time out.

That may explain the ends being torn at the heel of the hockeys......

 

if the ends are torn they wont seal well! that won't be anything to do with the trimmed length, purely how they were fitted.

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