Jump to content
  • Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com!

    Hello dear visitor! Feel free to browse but we invite you to register completely free of charge in order to enjoy the full functionality of the website.

Sign in to follow this  
Saveit

Location Of Brown Plugs?!

Recommended Posts

htice

Saveit,

Will see if I can take some more pictures of my wiring harness.

Unfortunately I did not take so many pictures while separating the indication harness from the ECU harness -

 

This is not so difficult.

suggjest you start by peel off the black wrapping ( start from the black/brown plugs)

up to the last indication wire... Then you separate or pull out all the indication wires up to the black/brown plug & cut off there and put to site.

Now you have only left the 5-6 ecu related wires only to worry about - should have same colors as shown on my picture here earlier.

 

Now you wrap the harness now with good quality electric tape - Keep the original layout/position for all the ecu connectors within the new wrappings.

 

Maybe good idea to make layout note or take few pictures of your harness layout / position before you start peeling off the black wrap - then you have something go for if unsure what goes or ends where while re-wrapping the ECU harness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saveit

So, ive seen this been done many times before in here - you guys are dictionaries :=) Here is the 405 loom spread all over the kitchen floor. I have taken one pictures for a full overview, and then some pictures of every "part" of the loom. Ive written on the different pictures which connectors are for what. The rest i would like to know whats for, and which can be removed. This is where you come in :lol:

 

I believe this could be of use for many others doing this conversion who wants to find out what all the connectors on the 405 loom are for, and which can me removed.

 

Overview:

all.jpg

 

Diag 1: 3 single small wires with different connectors and one 2 pin connector. No idea what they are for.

diag1.JPG

 

Diag 2: The 4 connectors and 1 more connector.

diag2.jpg

 

Diag 3: One connector and 2 wires which seems to be missing their connector housing?

diag3.JPG

 

Diag 4: One connector which i believe is for the coil or distributor or whatever, and one more which i believe is for the round thing sitting on top of the inlet manifold to the right (when standing in front of the car looking on the engine) close to the coil.

diag4.jpg

 

Diag 5: I think one is for the AFM (although there is also a connector on Diag 7 which also could be for the AFM?) and the ring could be earth?

diag5.jpg

 

Diag 6: One small ring connector, and then a brown 3 pin plug with only 2 pins used. The brown plug and the wires connecting to it is totally trashed. The insulation on the wires is all hard and breaks off in pieces.

diag6.JPG

 

Diag 7: One could be for the AFM?

diag7.jpg

 

Diag 8: The 2 brown multiplugs with the different connectors for the 205 loom, and the shunt box connector (which i believe is the main live?). DOnt know what the last connector is for.

diag8.jpg

 

 

Thank you in advance!

Edited by Saveit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Saveit,

I do not know if I have answer for all of your questions, But your harness looks like a little different from mine.

Ref to Picture 8,

QUOTE:

Don’t know what the last connector is for.

UNQUOTE:

What year is your donor engine & harness?

I do not have this connector - I Like to believe it is part the indication harness.

What wire numbers are there?

 

All the ECU plugs has the Lock Ring Steel Wire, Except for the brown Coil plug.

What I can tell from your pictures - Remaining wires - all Indication wiring.

 

When you start to peel off the wrapping, you will see how the indication Harness all connects to the Brown & Black Connector ONLY.

Other more important wires all goes up to direction of the big ECU plug and Pump/Injector relys.

When removing the Indicating harness,

The Only wire cut you are to make are at the Brown & Black connectors Only!

 

Suggest cutting like 2 cm from the Brown & Black connectors - basically between the wire number and the plugs.

That way you always have backwards traceability, both to colour of the wire and the wire number.

 

This picture - my wiring harness after stripping out the indicating wires.

Hope this help.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255770/MyWireLoom.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Just for input.

Here is picture of the tool I always use to peel wrapping & insulation from wiring looms.

Very quick to use

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...emovingTool.jpg

 

I do not know what it is called in English, but it is designed to cut up sewing stitches when repairing cloths etc.

Is an official Aircraft mechanic tool to remove wrapping from wiring?

 

Shuld be available in the next Vouge / fabric store.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Here is picture of the small 3wire 205 indication wire harness I did mention in my earlier post.

This harness just plugs into its made plug in the main 205 indication harness.

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...Harness-205.JPG

 

I just did lengthen the 2ea wires that goes to the thermostat block - 3rd wire just go to the oil pan - Oil Temp sensor.

 

Hope this help to clarify further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Here are few more clarification pictures of the wires harness & the Indication wires I did remove.

 

This is how the harness black & brown connector’s looks like before you start stripping out the indicator harness.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...oreyouStart.jpg

 

This is close up of the brow connector - now only connected to the indication wires - see last two pictures this post.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...wnConnector.jpg

 

This is close up of the black connector - now only connected to the indication wires - see last two pictures this post.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...kConnector2.jpg

 

This is the ECU mi16 harness where the black & brown connectors used to be - now ready to hook up with my 205Gti.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...nessRemoved.jpg

 

Here are 2 picture of the Mi16 indication wire spaghetti after removal - this just goes to the scrap bin.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ed%20wires1.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...movedWires2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Just a little note on the fat green Wire 112 that goes to the dash -> tacho

 

 

This is a Shielded wire, basically 2 conductor wire.

The centre core is the one that goes form the tachometric rely - via the 205 coil point - then up to the dash

 

The shielding of the wire is just connected to grnd.

 

Here you see clearly the Core & shielding conductors of wire # 112.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ilPosition2.jpg

This is at 205 original Coil position. Just remove coil and keep the two 112 connected.

& connect shield to Grnd.

 

Little zoom out of this same 112 wire at 205 coil point.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...oilPosition.jpg

 

Here is the 205 tachometric rely, where the 112 starts it's live - here I will connect the 112 from the mi16 harness.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ect%20Point.JPG

This rely is indicated as item M744 on the 205Gti Wire diagram

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...Gti_1986-up.pdf

you can follow the wire numbers from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Just to Note.

I have not at this point verifyed and tested 100% for my proposed wire splice (mi16 to 205) connection at the 205 tachometric rely.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ect%20Point.JPG

 

Hopefylly I will have that done shortly (weekend) - Will then take as many pictures as I can for later refrence.

 

My intention is to make the wiring harness 100% ready to connect to car 6 engine prior to install the engine.

As well before MI16 install - my plan is to strip everythign out of the engine bay and give it a good paint job & start with clean sheet

before this baybe goes in

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255770/DSC07042.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pug_ham

Looking at your pictures above Saveit,

 

Diag1; the black connector is possibly the CAS plug, three pin with thick black cale going into it, ideally you'll have to use a mulitmeter on the plug pins & ecu plug to see if it is (pins 19, 47 & 48 on the ecu plug if its the CAS). If there are three individual wires going to the plug its more likely to be the throttle position switch plug (ecu plug pins 30, 52 & 53). YOu can pull the rubber boot on the plug back to see what teh wires are going in to the pluga lso to give you an idea.

 

Thick blue wire probably starter solenoid wire, not needed if you intend to keep the original 205 one. This goes to the brown plug with twowires spare in Diag 8. Yellow connector, engine low oil pressure warning light sensor, ?

 

Diag2; Yes, injectors. Spare plug, how many pins?

 

Diag 3; Spare plug, hopw many pins & can you see a wire number on the wires missing a connector?

 

Diag 4; Coil & ICV (thats the thing with the two rubber hoses on).

 

Diag 5; Red connector, not sure but possibly coolant temp guage or high coolant temp warning sensor. Look for a wire number near the plug. I think the black plug next to this is the CAS (crank angle sensor), next is AFM, ring terminal most likely the earth but check the colour, green & yellow then it is the earth imo. The thin green wire next to that is possibly the other colant sender wire & the blue two pin plug next to it is the ecu CTS (coolant temp sender).

 

Diag 6; No Idea but not needed afaik.

 

Diag 7; Top to bottom - CAS, AFM & CTS.

 

Diag 8; Shunt box connectors, 405 connectors that I wouldn't use, just seperate the wires you need from them & join into your 205 loom. Blue wire in the other plug is starter solenoid wire afaik. Test with a multimeter butit is on the 405 looms I have.

 

Graham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saveit

htice - Thank you very much. Pictures speaks a thousand words.

 

Pugtorque - AFM, Cas and CTS cant both be diag 5 and diag 7. Diag 5 and diag 7 are of different wires. No wires are present on more than one Diag picture. I would imagine the wide/largest plug on diag 7 could be for the plug on the throttlebody perhaps? And what is this CAS thing? Do you have en image or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Saveit,

I believe the wide plug is for the ignition amplifier.

 

Most of these plugs will not intermix.

 

AFM meter and the Ign Amplifier plugs are next to the black/brown plugs and they will not intermix.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255770/MyWireLoom.JPG

 

Here are some more close up pictures.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...oolantPlugs.JPG

 

Just make sure you connect the green plugs only to the injectors..

The gray plug goes to the Idle Control Valve/Motor

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ctorAndIdle.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Saveit,

From your picture, Diag4,

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/405/diag4.jpg

 

Brown plug is for the coil & the other 3 wire plug is for the TB

(Thottle body -> Throttle position sensor)

 

Just do a simple test mockup of all the connections - Plug everythig in - all connection will start to make sense more to you then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pug_ham
Pugtorque - AFM, Cas and CTS cant both be diag 5 and diag 7. Diag 5 and diag 7 are of different wires. No wires are present on more than one Diag picture.

The blue plug is in two seperate pictures imo & that is the CTS (Diag 5 & 7) but I forgot about the ignition module plug in my previous reply.

 

The plugs in daig 5 I think are one of the temp / warning senders, CAS, AFM, earth, other temp / warning sender, CTS.

 

If the plug in diag 5 has five pins then it is the AFM plug but if it has seven then it is the ignition module.

 

And what is this CAS thing? Do you have en image or something?

The CAS (crank angle sensor) plug could be the plugs in either of the two diagrams, thats why I said you need to check the pins on the ecu plug to find out which is which or to check the wires under the rubber boot on the back of the plug but looking closer at Diag 5 I now think this is the CAS due to the black cable leading into the plug & also the surrounding plugs on the loom. The CAS if fitted into the gearbox housing above the flywheel.

 

Diag 7 is more likely to be Ignition modile & TPS with the CTS sneaking in at the bottom of the picture.

 

Because you have the full engine bay loom you will have a couple of plugs that you don't need such as the reversing light plug.

 

Graham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saveit

Do i have a problem if i do not have the CAS? Cause i didnt get any gearbox with the engine, so i used a be3 gearbox from a 405 GTX, and there isnt any plug on the gearbox? Is there anything i can do, or do i need to get a new gearbox?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Saveit, I am excatly in the same situation. I have very good 1.6 BE1 gerbox, but with no hole to plug the crank sensor in. Luckely I have few BE3 gearboxes and most of them are with the crank sensor mounting hole.

My intention is to combine the close ratio gear ratios lump from the 1.6 BE1 to the BE3 gearbox housing.

Still have to find out if possible to swap.

 

I believe the mi16 engine will not run witout the crank sensor - crank angle sensor is used to provide the ECU with crank position information for the ignition timing. If it fails, the ECU system does not know when to fire the spark.

 

I have not tested mi16 with no crank sensor, But but sure it will not work.

I have quite some experience with electronic ignitions and ECU system on USA engines / cars - where they use similar and/or same methot for locating TDC for fireing at correct timing BTDC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
htice

Saveit,

One of my BE3 boxes have no hole to hold the crank sensor in place, but it has like Crank sensor boss casted in the housing.

If your BE3 gerbox is the same, it should be easy to drill the hole for to plug in the crank position sensor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saveit

Then i will need to get a hold of a crank angle sensor. Someone ;)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bensonmi
Saveit,

One of my BE3 boxes have no hole to hold the crank sensor in place, but it has like Crank sensor boss casted in the housing.

If your BE3 gerbox is the same, it should be easy to drill the hole for to plug in the crank position sensor

 

 

you would need the cps for it to run,and i beleive it is possible to drill a hole for it to fit! good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saveit

Got a CAS now ;) So i am happy. And i will look further in to the wiring one of the following days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pug_ham

Saveit, Your BE1 gearbox is very unlikely to have the hole for the CAS like htice says but you need the CAS for it to run on the injection system because it read the crank position from the timing ring on the flwheel.

 

Drilling the casing is dodgy imo because it needsto be exactly located so finding either a late Be1 with the CAS hole or swapping the casing for one with it are your best options.

 

Graham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saveit

My gearbox is not a be1, its a be3. We have used a gearbox from a 405 GTX, which is be3. So i imagine there being a hole for the crank sensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pug_ham

There should be a CAS hole then, its arrowed in this picture

 

Graham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×