Autodata Help

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

posting in here as its technically an engine conversion.

converting 405 1.8 8v to 2.0 8v. Using a 306 engine, 405 ecu and loom. Problem is severe over fueling, tested and changed everything that could cause this in relation to sensors and checked all earths. Fault code 52 IIRC which just means mixture control, no help really!!

Looking at autodata as I suspect something is off with the TPS and note when comparing the 306 and the 405 looms that even though the ecu is the same some things change with wiring. Possibly due to different sensors? Hoping someone can look on their autodata and confirm my suspicions. Main ones to note are 405 shows pin 2 of the ecu coolant temp sensor earthing but also having some sort of wierd live via an un-named component through pin 6 of the fuel injection multifunction relay. 306 diagram shows this as running straight to earth and nothing back feeding? The other difference is the throttle position switch has pins 1 and 2 reversed. Strange as the component testing techniques state the same things on the same pins. Which by my working out means only one set of wiring can be correct for the sensors that I have!!

would someone kindly take a few minutes of their time to see if Im right or just being ignorant of the obvious please?

Edited January 5, 2009 by Richie-Van-GTi

[Rob Turbo 3]

Something very similar happened when I used an s16 loom on my turbo engine, the s16 throttle plate opens the opposite way to the turbo throttle plate, so the sensor is wired up with the 2 pins swapped, the result on my car was I couldn't put my foot right down, as soon as my foot hit the floor the fuel would be cut and it was like hitting a brick wall, after swapping the 2 wires around it was all fine.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

That makes a lot of sense although this seems to be over fueling but then I guess its seeing wide open at idle. Will give it a try tomorrow.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Mine was over fueling at idle and was a bit crap at normal driving, then would die on WOT.

 

I was getting all kinds of fault codes for lambda sensor, boost control and mixture control, and also changed all the sensors and messed around with bits and bobs for about a week or two until I compared the wiring diagrams and noticed the same as you have.

[jplautomotive 0]

hi

 

that un named bit is the throttle housing heater and is on pin 6 on both relays labaled as r10 on 405 daigramme

 

pin 2 goes to idle valve on both ecus

Edited January 5, 2009 by jplautomotive

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I had the similar crossed TPS wiring on my MP3.1 conversion due to using a different TPS to the one that had been fitted on the 405 so when I tried for WOT it died.

 

Found out when I took my car to chipwaizards that when I went WOT the TPS was going to idle map which was why it effectively stopped dead.

 

Swapped the wires around & its been fine ever sicnce.

 

As above, wire from pin 6 of double relay is throttle body heater. I've removed it (yellow plug on the loom) on the MM8P loom I'm doing for my other 205 now.

 

Graham.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

AAAARGHHH, swapped the wires and it got worse so had to swap them back. I tried 3 different TPS, one of which the plug was different but still fit upside down, the wiring connector looks to of been made for either

Anyway I messed around with a few plugs, checking wiring numbers etc make sure everything was where it should be and it was but something changed somewhere. I now have no warning light for the ecu and a nice blue flame, the car pulls like a train but anything below 1800rpm and it dies

Ive left it at that for now as I have to be somewhere this afternoon. Any ideas what next? The idle control valve is working as you can hear it buzz in and out trying to bring the revs down. (at idle when rich it did control idle very well).

next option could be map sensor? the one on now was from the 1.8 8v but was the bosch ecu. Could that be the problem?

Edited January 6, 2009 by Richie-Van-GTi

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

just checking autodata again and yes the map sensor does look to be wired different and output on different pins. Not sure if I can just swap wires though asI dont fully know how they work?

[welshpug 1,621]

bit confused as to which 405 ecu you are using, 1.8 or 2.0?

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

2.0 8v 405 ecu and loom. Only thing left of the management that is 1.8 is the map sensor as its bolted to the chassis!!

[welshpug 1,621]

Ok, I've done some hunting on Servicebox on 405/306 parts.

 

the MAP sensor is different from Bosch to Magneti,

 

405 Magneti 1.8 and 2.0 are the same part - 1920 J7 Bosch uses 1920 K8.

 

 

 

all 3 systems use the same Throttle poteniometers, BUT a choice of 2, 1920 0F up to 01/06/1995 or RP 06779, and 1920 T8 from thereon

 

 

 

ECU temperature sensor (green one) is 1920 K9 between the systems mentioned.

 

 

 

one thing I have noticed, only the 2.0 has a Knock sensor.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

Thanks, I searched service box but couldnt find the map sensors. Should be able to put my hands on a 1920J7 tonight all being well. Fingers crossed it solves the problem and I can get back to driving the estate

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Which ecu are you using, Bosch or Magnet Marelli?

 

Graham.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

Woohoo, its seems to be fixed. Map sensor swapped and it idles and drives real well

 

Graham its now on mag marelli, previous 1.8 8 was on bosch. Seems it was the left over map sensor causing all the issues.