Swirl Pot

[Eddy5 3]

Having had problems with fuel starvation on long right handers in the Pug whilst sprinting, I'm thinking about fitting a swirl pot.

 

Anyone had any experience of fittign one?

Recommend a pot?

New or second hand?

[mattcony 2]

This too was on my list to do on the TT as i had the same problem quite bad but sure as hell fixed it now

 

cheers

 

matt

[blackscooby 0]

I'm just looking into exactly the same thing.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...showtopic=11576

 

The tread isn't really about swirl pots but I made a mention about them !

 

Where were you thinking of putting one ?

I'm not sure how the hell I could get one to work without taking up the whole of the boot with it mounted inside a metal case.

[Eddy5 3]

I'm not really sure where, or quite how they plumb in to be frank. Something I'm trying to gether information for.

[GtiMad 1]

Aren't swirl pots used to get bubbles out of fuel on monster turbo cars too?

[Guest Wiggs]

I thought they were used to get bubbles out of water in the cooling system or are there different types of swirl pots?

 

From the Bailey Motorsport website;

 

"Designed to be used with our header tanks, these pots fit into the radiator top hose and their function is to swirl the incoming water, removing air bubbles through the spout in the top which is fed back to the header tank. Removing the air caused by localised boiling within the cooling system will allow the water to have a more stable operating temperture. Once the air is removed your radiator will work more efficiently, as air is a bad conductor and will stop your water from cooling."

[GtiMad 1]

Yup, that's what I thought they were. Dunno why I was talking about fuel.

[blackscooby 0]

Same applies to fuel as a water cooling system. Air in the fuel rail is a BAD BAD thing. On hillclimb / sprints its better to run with as little fuel as possible as any excess weight is bad. However the standard Pug tank design is CRAP. I'm suffering fuel starvation when running anything less than an indicated 3/4 (probably 1/2 in reality).

 

A fuel swirl pot would use a low pressure fuel pump to move fuel from the tank to the pot which stays at a set level due to a return feed. Another high pressure pump takes it from the swirl pot to the injector rail.

 

Hence if the tank picks up air around a tight bend for example on a sprint it doesn't matter as the fuel is taken from the swirl pot which is always fed from the bottom and unlike a tank it can't slosh around !

 

DT have a 1000cc swirl pot which I'm interested in (specific fuel pot) and not a cooling system swirl pot

 

Below is a link to SBD Motorsports and their swirl pot setup

 

http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Info_sheets/Fuel_in...swirl%20pot.htm

Edited August 19, 2003 by blackscooby

[GtiMad 1]

Oh cool, that sounds ideal.

 

I was thinking it through, before I got confused about the water bit!!!, and I thought it would work like that but didn't really know how. Two fuel pumps makes sence.

[smckeown 1]

This could be a very cost effective weight saving measure for a track car, plus all the advantages of eliminating fuel surge.

 

I have done the figures and they work out as:

 

Petrol weighs 0.74kg per litre (looked it up)

Fuel tank full capacity is 50 litres

So full it weighs 36kgs

 

Lets say we can save 40 litres of fuel we run just 10 litres with the swirl pot kit, so that saves 28.8kgs...a decent amount of weight loss!

 

Now a carbon bonnet is about £300 and that saves approx 10kgs, so cost wise each kg you are saving is costing £30. If the complete swirl pot system costs £200 (saving 28.8kgs) then that works out at just £6.90 per kgs. Basically very cost effective.

 

So for a race/track car it's a win / win situation

 

Sean

[Sam 4]

Rather annoying you need to get another pump though.

 

Has anyone done it sucessfully?

[Alex G 0]

my bro made one for his RS turbo.

He bought a facet fuel pump that fills the swirl pot from the tank then the fuel pump empties the swirl pot to provide pressure. Then there is a return to the swirl pot and then to the tank (ie an overflow)

[mossy 0]

I beleive that you will need the pot to be filled by a low presure pump and then a high pressure pump to the injecters. So it acts like a mini fuel tank that is always kept full, so no fueling problems. They showed this set up on the TV program Kit car crisis on home and lesure (or what ever its called now)

[Jonmurgie 2]

Correct, the usual setup is to use the standard fuel pump to fill the swirl pot, then buy a facet pump to take that from the swirl pot into your fuel regulator etc.

 

I think I've mentioned it before in another thread, but I have a complete setup waiting to be fitted to my car next time I get the chance

[smckeown 1]

Correct, the usual setup is to use the standard fuel pump to fill the swirl pot, then buy a facet pump to take that from the swirl pot into your fuel regulator etc.

 

Surely the pumps need to be the other way round ? otherwise your fuel pressure at injectors would be way too low

[Jonmurgie 2]

Nah, the facet pump is a high pressure one so it arrives at the other end with more than enough pressure for your regulator to adjust to suit the application... seen the setup with my own eyes on several cars @ PS

[16v205 9]

Ill take some pics of my surge tank and setup the weekend

 

Rich

[Alex G 0]

Surely the pumps need to be the other way round ? otherwise your fuel pressure at injectors would be way too low

 

i believe this is the correct way. Facet pump constantly running to fill the swirl pump and the standard pump to supply pressure.

[Jonmurgie 2]

well it's not have I've seen it done many many times then.... we shall wait to see how Rich has done it I guess

[Guest quantumjohn]

If you are really worried about weight is it not worth removing the original tank altogether and running a small tank that is in the engine bay similar to the swirl pot?

 

A number of rallycross stock hatch 205's just have a small aluminum fuel tank in the engine bay as they only need enough fuel do several laps.

 

The weight saving of not having the original tank a second pump and all the lines would be big.

 

Not sure how legal this would be for the road!

 

John

[smckeown 1]

yeah i was talking to SGR engineering yesterday and they were also talking about replacing the tank with an ali one. The other advantage is the OE tank may not work that well on very low fuel (which is the whole point) even with a swirl tank. So OI may go for both. It's a case of suck it and see though, worth a try without first

[smckeown 1]

If you are really worried about weight is it not worth removing the original tank altogether and running a small tank that is in the engine bay similar to the swirl pot?

 

A number of rallycross stock hatch 205's just have a small aluminum fuel tank in the engine bay as they only need enough fuel do several laps.

 

The weight saving of not having the original tank a second pump and all the lines would be big.

 

Won't be that significant as OE tank is plastic, ive heard the ali equivilant is about half the weight, so i'd guess about 3kgs saved

 

 

Not sure how legal this would be for the road!

 

John

 

More an issue of practicality, first you have a small tank so a pain in the ass driving to/from events, plus the hassle of not having a fuel gauge. As i believe they are a pain to get working in aftermarket tanks

Edited September 28, 2005 by smckeown

[petert 554]

If you cut the std. fuel tank in half, along the supporting strap axis, and get it plastic welded, all your problems will be solved. You'll only have 30L of fuel max. and fuel can't move from one side to the other.

[smckeown 1]

now that sounds interesting Pete. Is that a proven solution you have used before (or known to have been used) ?

[petert 554]

now that sounds interesting Pete. Is that a proven solution you have used before (or known to have been used) ?

 

yep, all the top cars down under have it done. I'll cut one up later and post a pic.