camgti 56 Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Evening guys. As some of you know I have been having issues with my coilovers in this thread http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=159356&page=2 I was supposed to be measuring bits and pieces for us to all pour over and work out the problem. Ive not done so as time has just not allowed. Thanks you boys for your offers again to help me out and trying to get me to work it out! Sorry Ive let you down! Anyway, I had a good friend of mine take the car to his workshop and straight away say that the dampers are too long. So Im in the market for some new bodies. I have just had them serviced and the valves changed to suit the springs Im running. Im assuming I can just buy some bodies and fit the inserts? What are my options? Ive seen some guys using compbrake strut bodies? Or shall I stick with bilstein? Im hoping I can buy something Locally here in Australia but wanted to check here as garages here have no idea and hate anything european and old! I want to get onto this asap as driving the car is a mission avoiding pot holes etc and causes too much anxiety and no confidence! There are no markings on the struts to identify what part number they maybe. Any advice or direction welcome. The car is used on road and track. Thanks in advance Cam Edited September 30, 2014 by camgti Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 550 Posted October 1, 2014 I think you should visit Greg Nolan with one of your assemblies. http://suspensionconcepts.com.au/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted October 3, 2014 OK. Ive measure the leg. Its 350mm long. Does anyone have something to compare it too? Pete, the car is booked in with Heasmann on the 14th. Hoping they can shed some light on the situation. Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 550 Posted October 3, 2014 I think they'll rip you off. I sent JeffR to Greg and he took 5 secs off his Sandown time. I'm not suggesting you need a race spring rate, he just know his stuff. I'll measure mine early next week. Can't do it now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camgti 56 Posted October 3, 2014 5 sec was more than just suspension. Plate diff etc will do that! Ill check it out. They are just inspecting it so no cost just yet. Ill give him a call next week. Thanks for the like and referral. Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,622 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Sounds like they are not bilstein bodies, only inserts.here's my bilsteins, gravel/forest and tarmac used the same bodies with different inserts and springs. 20141003_092937 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr 20141003_093154 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr total length is 330mm, top of hub carrier top top of body is 275mm, hub carrier to bottom of threads is 140mm part number 57861 H091.they use 2.75" / 70mm springs. Edited October 3, 2014 by welshpug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,622 Posted October 3, 2014 I have long top spindle type with spherical bearing. 20141003_094109 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr 20141003_094130 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 11, 2016 Are the tarmac and gravel inserts different lengths or just valved differently? I'm using the same legs with long top spindles (gravel/forest) and the seat of the spring cup is sitting a wee bit past halfway down the threads... springs are 10" length... with adjustable platforms, you'd think this was obviously the way to adjust ride height, or do you think it is best to do this by using longer or shorter springs? For me it would seem that the platform is there mostly to allow the correct pre-load on the spring itself... winding the collar up probably won't lower the ride height as much as it will just compress the spring more, does that sound right? have these on the car now and massive difference over standard struts in respect of I could depress the wings of the car up and down before, now there is no movement at all... the front ride height seems a little higher over a standard car... I'm fine with this but have just put the car back on all 4 wheels after fitting 23mm torsion bars (300mm dummy shock) and the back is now considerably lower than the back, that's not good obviously.... I've heard that achieving ride height with coil-overs can be limited... think I am getting why now... Can you remember what front and rear PTS ride heights were for gravel and tarmac? if not, did they differ vastly? No problem in putting more height on the rear, just expected 300mm to be sitting a bit higher than it is.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
And 15 1 Cars Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Depends on what Springs you run and the inserts as there is different lengths inserts too they should be the same length and valve different but not always, mine on the same inserts a 10.5in long 170lbs Spring sits the same hight as a 2in helper fully compressed and a 9in 225lbs Spring. My current Tarmac inserts are the longest I could get in and they run a 3in helper and the 225lbs Spring for simerler ride hight. My rear is set at my rear damper full open length on 23mm bars, the reigers open length bolt centre to centre is 320mm. Edited September 13, 2016 by And Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 14, 2016 Andy, handy info, especially regarding the rear... Presume you have enough rake on the car? any photos of the car taken from the side? I have the 10" springs, I can put the flat blade of a screwdriver under the spring seat and move the spring quite easily... this is telling me the springs are under very little compression. I think I will try to wind up the platform a little and see if this lowers the front a little bit.... don't need too much to achieve the rake I want. Do you know where to buy the Bilstein spanners?... my platforms haven't been adjusted in a while and don't want to ruin them with chisels or drifts... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allanallen 528 2 Cars Posted September 14, 2016 Winding the spring seat up will raise the ride height and not lower it?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
And 15 1 Cars Posted September 15, 2016 As Allan says raising the plat form will raise the car mine runs about pts group a rallye hight firm sill measurements, but my spanners the c-spanner think was from demon tweeks but would think they are cheaper on eBay. Only real pic I currently have side on is my header on my Facebook, but you want as much travel as you can get even for tarmac, I can't remember of top of my head how much damp and drup I have on the rear but front is 80mm drup and 130mm damp think it is, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 15, 2016 brain fade, the spring won't compress a little and relax the ride height because that is not how they work, nor will they wind down as this will leave play or float. This type of platform strut is designed to accomodate different applications, i.e. spring lengths and matching inserts which then dictate the ride height, is that a fair description? The front looked fine to me until I had set the beam height, probably it is this that is making me worry about the ride height being too high for tarmac, If I can achieve the correct rake then I'll try to drive around this until I can buy tarmac inserts... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,622 Posted September 15, 2016 its not a problem to run them lower and have a bit of slack, if they come unseated too often for you then some helper springs will fix it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 16, 2016 I have some helper springs on another set of coilovers... hopefully the same size... will have time over the weekend on the car, I'm happy with the height on the beam so if I can sort the ride height at the front then I'll be double happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allanallen 528 2 Cars Posted September 16, 2016 brain fade, the spring won't compress a little and relax the ride height because that is not how they work, nor will they wind down as this will leave play or float. This type of platform strut is designed to accomodate different applications, i.e. spring lengths and matching inserts which then dictate the ride height, is that a fair description? The front looked fine to me until I had set the beam height, probably it is this that is making me worry about the ride height being too high for tarmac, If I can achieve the correct rake then I'll try to drive around this until I can buy tarmac inserts... Springs do dictate the ride height yes bit adding preload to the spring will also alter the ride height. Sounds like you want helpers and/or shorter springs. Are you running the 70mm diameter springs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 16, 2016 Yip, 70mm springs... had a set of tarmac springs but gave them away as didn't think I'd be needing them, also no use without tarmac inserts. pretty sure the springs were 10" too though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 18, 2016 Spent some time dismantling some old coilovers (think they were Jamex but no markings, the legs actually look of good quality, different thread type from Bilstein though) hmmm, one came apart easily enough though a fair bit of pressure needed holding the T6 thread still while undoing the 23mm top nut. Helper springs were of no use as they are 60mm ID instead of 70mm... The other strut was not for being taken apart... snapped three T6 bits trying to undo the top nut... which put me off even trying to look at my Bilsteins as they have the same dia T6 thread but with a smaller, think 21mm top nut... is there a method or best technique for keeping the rod still while undoing the bolt? Ended up cutting the strut apart with a grinder just to see what the issue was, from what I can see, almost looks like the sleeved nut had forged itself against the spherical bearing of the top mount (Spoox alloy type) and this is why it refused to turn... not 100% sure... parts are in the bucket unless someone wants them, missing an insert and top mount... Instead I have followed Andy's advice and raised the rear beam by an extra 15mm between shock centres to achieve satisfactory rake, happy with that for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allanallen 528 2 Cars Posted September 19, 2016 Windy gun is often needed to get the top nut off if they've been on a while. Top hats often seize in too, usually you can drop the spring seats right down to allow you to sit the top mount in a vice and knock the spindle through the top hat/bearing. Glad you're sorted for now, perhaps keep an eye out for some shorter springs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted September 19, 2016 Glad they were just an old and not needed set of coilovers, the top nut (which was sleeved and shaped like a top hat) must have been seized in the bearing of the mount... looking at the other good nut, it's a close, virtually interference fit... I'll post up a photo later... In comparison the Bilstein has a nyloc nut instead with the spindle passing through a rose-jointed mount. Same as WP's photos above... Yip, tarmac springs and inserts on the list at some point, thanks for the info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
And 15 1 Cars Posted September 19, 2016 I have been taking to AB on inserts and he use to get reiger to make up some inserts to fit the bilstein body's 40mm with a small mod they were a liner ajustment 2 way they were not a bad price but I need to speak to reiger to see what they can offer, I believe they covered from gravel to tar settings and around 9in long damper rod witch is about the longest you can get in a 205 witch gives you good amount of drup and damp, may be if no interest to you and really needs a rear 3 way to go with them but I am currently looking at front options, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,622 Posted September 19, 2016 avo and proflex will do them too, wouldn't recommend the former though, service from them is good but engineering detail and longevity between services leaves something to be desired, the new car I'm servicing for hasn't had any issues at all with the refreshed proflex it came with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allanallen 528 2 Cars Posted September 20, 2016 Mac, the former sleeved nuts you mention are fairly common, not many companies make the Bilstein 'long spindle' type dampers. And, are they a 2 way non remote res damper then? Most companies do 40/50mm inserts now, even Gaz! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
And 15 1 Cars Posted September 20, 2016 Yes they are none remote 2way but liner ajustment with a single adjuster they are about £1200 for a per compared to £1400 each per 3way front, I am only looking at reiger as I want matching make front to rear and reiger believe it or not is cheaper to buy (just) but living like 5mins from M-Sport making rebuilds are easyer and a lot cheaper using lads that are trained by reiger for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
205Rallee 59 Posted September 20, 2016 Slightly off topic, does anyone know where to get the 70mm springs? I've had some tarmac new old stock ones from Special Tuning at Preston but they still give too high a ride height (with a TU 8V engine) with long top spindle tarmac inserts and the bottom seats wound down as far as they go. Yes they do unseat under full droop. Eibach main spring with a tender or helper spring would do the trick but the 70mm id ones only seem to be available in America. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
