Oil Pump Query On The Xu9J4 16V Engine

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Quick query bout the oil pump. The one I have has done heaven knows how many miles. My experience with other engines has always to replace the oil pump when rebuilding the engine, but these Peugeots may be different. However, Febi offer a new pump at a reasonable cost. Anyone on here with experience of these pumps or is stripping and cleaning of my existing one the starting point?

Andy

[Sandy 189]

The OE pumps are very durable, good for massive mileage, more so often than aftermarket replacements. Strip and clean it, inspect the thrust face where the gears have rubbed, inspect gears for notches, check for play in the sprocket shaft (should be almost undetectable) and burring of the drive sprocket from the chain. Remove and clean the gauze, rebuild is spotlessly clean with assembly lube or a lot of oil, because it needs that to get the seal to suck through the oil on first cranking (always crank with plugs out and crank sensor disconnected, until you get oil pressure, before trying to run the engine after a rebuild.)

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thank you. Very helpful. I will do as you suggest and save some money!

Andy

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

Awesome this was one of the things on my list of many things to do.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Replace the spring by a XU10 spring; will give 6bar oil pressure.

Partnr 1157.11

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

Hi wicked,

 

I've also got the 52 link chain and 26toothed crankshaft sprocket will I still need the uprated spring?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

6 bar is std in the pumps anyway, the old Group N spring from PTS was heavier but not seen one of those for a while, As Sandy's said the OE pumps are much better than a pattern pump even after 200k, But new OE pumps are £175.00 ish so not too bad and use a chain guard as well.

 

The only pump I have ever seen a issue with was a pattern one

[petert 550]

I don't necessarily agree with Miles. When you lay an XU9J4 and XU10J4 relief spring side by side, you can definitely the see difference between the springs. Surely there must be a difference in pressure? My theory is that the XU10J4 spring is identical to the PTS spring.

 

However, you don't need more pressure any way, you need flow. And that's where the 26T sprocket is beneficial in increasing flow at idle/low rpm. I use to be a fan of 26T sprockets, however, all the replacement sprockets fail early from excessive wear. In contrast, sprockets from XU9J4's which have been around the world show no wear. When you stop to think about it, have you ever seen the oil pressure light come on in an Mi16 at idle? Even if it was marginal, another 50-100 rpm at idle would stop it anyway.

 

I think it's good to fit all the other XU10 surge protection bits, but not a new 26T sprocket from a dealer.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

If you have look in servicebox, the XU9J4 has a different spring and listed as 5 Bars:

1157 13

01

VEER

5 BARS

 

Were does new sprockets used with old chains?

[Sandy 189]

It's a long time since I was last inside an Mi16 block and I can't remember if they have oil jets, oil jets can make a huge difference to volume requirement.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Sandy

[welshpug 1,622]

they do indeed

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Right. Pump in bits. Looks in very good condition, no score marks on the housing face, no play in the sprocket shaft but I have yet to check the gear- housing clearance. Now for the confusing bit. Here was I all set to go to the Peugeot dealers tomorrow, having confirmed with them that they can get the 6 bar Spring, the 26 tooth sprocket and associated chain, only to read that the advice is mixed. I have a baffle plate in the sump, so one tick, and I have to admit that the 22 tooth crank sprocket I have removed looks in perfect shape. However, the thought of a sprocket failure leaves me with a sinking feeling, so bit of a dilemma here now! A new Spring is a dead cert, but how to proceed. This is getting as hard as deciding what colour I should get the body shop to repaint my 205 shell !!!

Andy

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

Apologies the 26 tooth sprocket and 52 link chain is from the S16 engine but still fits the xu9j4 mi16, I believe the gti-6 sprocket and chain are the same as well.

 

0513 78 sprocket

 

1033 10 chain

 

These are what I ordered from Peugeot but yet still to fit. This sprocket also has a key way for a woodruff as well although I'm not sure whether the mi16 crank has a slot for one yet.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

My theory is that the XU10J4 spring is identical to the PTS spring.

Whilst I haven't stripped the pump from an XU10J4, I bought one of the mentioned XU10 6 bar springs 1157.11 as fitted to them.

 

I also bought a PTS pump spring when I first built an engine for one of my 205's & from what I can remember the PTS spring laid next to the spring I took out of the pump was about 20mm longer where the 1157.11 was the same length as another I stripped from a B6E engine.

 

g

[petert 550]

A picture to illustrate my experience with 26T sprockets. The sprocket on the left did 60000Km in an XU9J4 road car. The sprocket on the right did 9 years service in my race car (approx 50 hrs @ 7000-8000rpm).

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Point taken. Thank you. Spring it is.

Oh, had my first disappointment with my newly acquired engine. Having now inspected and measured the crank journals, a regrind is in order, which will keep my local engineering workshop busy, as I have asked them also to do a full balance of crank, flywheel, clutch, end to end rod balance and piston mass balance

Andy

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Right. New 6 bar spring received. Here is the odd thing. It is about 1 cm shorter than the one I have removed from my pump. I have rebuilt the pump with the new spring, but the old one is, if anything, stiffer. Certainly when compressed to the same length, the old one exerts more force. Thoughts anyone, about what it could be.

Andy

[petert 550]

Here's a brand new spring (115711) I've just taken from a packet along side a spring I've just taken from an XU9J4 pump. The new spring has a wire diameter of 1.9mm compared to 1.8mm for the XU9J4 spring. Overall lengths are 92.5mm for new compared to 89.5mm. I hope that helps in some way.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thank you. Yes it does in the sense that it confirms that the new one I have just bought from the Peugeot dealer is indeed excactly like the upper one in your photograph. What is odd is that the one I removed was longer than the new one, implying that it would not release until more than 6bar. Anyway, new one is fitted. 6bar is enough oil pressure. Part of the trick on rebuild is to ensure the correct mains and big end bearing clearances , rather than just popping in new shells and hoping.

Andy

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Andy-correct

It seems an#l but engineering principles win through every time, if your clearance is too tight/big it's really not going to matter much what spring you use, better to get them all in tolerance-if in doubt measure, trust no-one (including the guy that's put wrong shells in wrong box) and anyway-if you do it right it's free horsepower/less likelyhood of being down on power + you don't need to do it again in a fortnight lol