Eeeek! - Pull To Right

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Hi yawl,

 

205 Mi now practically fully roadworthy ready for MoT, but....after replacing rear beam (with 309 one) and getting tracking done, there are 2 instances when a sharp pull to the right is occurring.

 

1) Going round roundabout - not booting it - and sudden unprovoked turn in

 

&

 

2) (not from standstill) but when already motoring straight, poke on throttle issues same tug to the right.

 

This is most unnerving at the best of times, but when the front suspension is practically all new, and you want to enjoy and survive some proper speed, then this needs to be diagnosed and rectified.

 

Anyone come across this before or know what it may be????

 

Need help

 

Dr S

Edited October 10, 2006 by DrSarty

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

when mine used to do this it was normally a torn or worn bush on the front wishbones . also mostly noticeable whe doing a fast standing start . the car would pull quite dangerously to one side or the other almost pulling the steering wheel out of you're hands if you wasn't carefull .

[Faz85 0]

Hi Dr. S,

 

Seems a strange problem considering the suspension is pretty much new...Although it sounds to me like symptoms of a knackered wishbone bush, especially with regards to the sudden turn in on roundabouts.

 

Do you know if the wishbones have been changed recently?

 

Regards

 

Faraz

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

it was normally a torn or worn bush on the front wishbones

 

Thanks - the ATS (yeah I know) guys who very helpfully fitted the front end for me did point out a slightly worn bush on the O/S wishbone but it didn't seem that serious, as in a 'I'll get that done next to be safe job'.

 

Could just a slightly worn wishbone joint REALLY do this? It is very, very unnerving when it happens.

 

Dr (now nearer sanctuary) S

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

Hi Dr. S,

 

Seems a strange problem considering the suspension is pretty much new...Although it sounds to me like symptoms of a knackered wishbone bush, especially with regards to the sudden turn in on roundabouts.

 

Do you know if the wishbones have been changed recently?

 

Regards

 

Faraz

 

i've seen bushes fail after 10 miles . Mostly on non oe wishbones .And especially if they've been tightened up while the car isn't at the normal ride height.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Are you suggesting NOT to get wishbones from GSF?

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

Are you suggesting NOT to get wishbones from GSF?

 

if its just the bushes that worn the they are available seperately from the main dealer . they arent expensive either

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks Faz & Pugnut for replying so quickly AND (most importantly) with a similar diagnosis - a relatively easy one to fix too.

 

I'm guessing that as everything else is new it has emphasized the weaknesses in other areas - as such 2 new GSF wishbones should be here tomorrow. Yes I know I could've saved getting bushes from main dealer (GSF don't have the correct ones), but that would've involved faffing with old and new and this way ALL the front suspension is brand spanking.

 

I'll fit 'em and post a conclusion - standby standby

 

If any one else can corroborate this diagnosis and fix then please do so to justify the £90 I'm now missing from my wallet!

 

Dr (less well off) S

[205wrc 16]

If you say that the tracking has been done and its still pulling to one side, then its almost certain wishbone bushes. The only other thing that causes this is to much "toe out" on your front wheels, and thats down to your tracking being out.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks again to all those who've taken an interest in replying. There is a common theme, and I've been out in it with Justin (keypan) who has experienced the same caused by worn wishbone bushes, so I am feeling pretty confident that the new GSF ones that I'll fit tomorrow will rectify the situation. I suspect it'll transform the car and the driving experience because it's quite unpleasant as it stands and I had no idea a few bits of rubber could affect the car's geometry and stability so much.

 

I'll post a conclusion to this thread hopefully tomorrow night.

 

Thanks to Keypan and Batfink for their assistance and spares tonight. NOW HEAR THIS!!!!

 

FOR ALL BUCKS/HERTS/W LONDON and similarly local Puggers, the 3 of us are curry fans and are proposing a regular (every 2 months say) curry meet at decent curry houses with suitable parking in this area. Just to collect rough numbers, would those in the area who would scoff with us (and perhaps know of top venues) PM me saying 'I love curry too', and provide town and county info. I'm not asking for anyone's mobile no. or e-mail address, but if you want to provide it please do so, and I will contact those who show an interest within a week to arrange the first feasting. (feasting NOT fisting! ). e-mail would be the best 'on-mass' contact method, so I would recommend you include this if you are PMing me

 

Dr S

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

you'de get better coverage if you posted you're curry night as a seperate topic in HERE cheers, Al

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

you'de get better coverage if you posted you're curry night as a seperate topic in HERE cheers, Al

 

Will do PN, but just wanted to test the water first as I'm a relatively new member and I know that the 'EEK' thread title would get a lot of views. Thanks for your assistance.

[kyepan 291]

Good luck fitting them in all that down pour!!!

 

Did we say friday night in the work shop was a possibility

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Kyepan (yep, got it right this time - I'm guessing it's one of your kickboxing nad crunching roundhouse moves), IF they turn up today (the wishbones that is from GSF), I'm doing it under cover from 3pm.

 

If not, then I can do it from 1230 on Friday, which is probably no good to you as I'll be out to work from 1615. Just hoping GSF deliver today, then it should be fixed tonight.

 

Sonofsam - simple fix re curry - move house nearer us

 

Dr (Curry munchin') S

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Right - new wishbones fitted, but heeding warning re wrecking bushes by tightening when not at normal ride height I've only pinched-and-a-bit'd them. I'm guessing they need tightening, but to what torque and how do you do it with it sitting down on its suspension as for normal road use.

 

I'm sure the answer's simple, but the 3 bolts aren't that easy to get to, (one in particular) when jacked up with the wheel off. Please help out again to see this car ready for a reet royal thrashin'.

 

Dr (Nearly there now) S

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

i measure the hub centre to wheel arch before i start. then once gthe new 'bone is on place another jack under the hub and raise to the right height before tightening. If its standard height then sak someone else to measure for you . you get the drift

[kyepan 291]

i measure the hub centre to wheel arch before i start. then once gthe new 'bone is on place another jack under the hub and raise to the right height before tightening. If its standard height then sak someone else to measure for you . you get the drift

like he said, worked a treat for me.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

As the handsome chap in the film GOONIES said: 'I love you guys'

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

RECTIFIED - The topic dies. New (GSF) wishbones fitted, and torqued up as per the often ficticious Haynes lie-ble.

 

The rear most wishbone bolts which (on mine anyway) were 18mm and need to be 78Nm, are awqward to get to. I was lucky enough to get over a pit, so the car was at proper ride height which (again on mine) had the wishbones horizontal (nice ), and meant an 18mm ring spanner on the torsion bar end and an (in this order) stubby 18mm socket (on head of bolt) to 'wobbly' socket joint to long extension to torque wrench = works a treat.

 

The other inner was just a smaller torque wrench and ring on nut to achieve the 30Nm that this 17mm and the outer pivot joint bolt/nut combos require.

 

Actually driving to the pit with the wishbone bolts only pinched, was only slightly better than when they were worn, so it shows that the correct tightening of these really does make a difference. Now I'll have to get the f*&kin tracking done again; but at least it feels much much stabler now.

 

Cheers everyone - here endeth'd my lesson.

 

Dr (Positive steering) S

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

AAAARRRRGGH! ....It's back - and I now have witnesses.

 

Only on turning in right, on steady or progressively tightening RIGHT HANDERS ONLY, when the steering reaches a certain point there's what I'd best describe as a 'pop' over further into the right. It's like dropping into a rut but the opposite.

 

It's not violent, it's just unnerving and unpleasant, and you kind of anticipate (read: dread) it coming, and it spoils an otherwise lovely handling car. It also does not happen at all to the left.

 

Now - the front wishbones were both changed for new GSF as per earlier in this thread some time ago. Then, whilst it went, I then found I had a slightly wobbly right front wheel, which when stationary, you could rock from the top of the wheel about 2-3mm. Anthony felt this about 5 months ago and tightened up the rear front sub-frame bolts in a Hungry Horse car park. This seemed to elimate any turn in 'pop' totally. But the front bolts were not reachable, so could need doing.

 

Since then, due to the 'pop' returning and a vibration at motorway speeds NOT being a result of balancing or tracking (because I paid to have them checked), the front hub was diagnosed as the cause of the 2-3mm free play mentioned ^^ after checking shocks, springs and everything else and was replaced and fitted with a new bearing. The freeplay then disappeared as did the 'pop'.

 

Recently as the 'pop' had returned with a vengeance, I ordered another GSF wishbone assuming the rear bush could only be the reason for it and had a garage fit it whilst I was away from home. I thought this would rectify it but no.

 

This is most unpleasant and I dread right handers. Some aren't sweeping enough to make it happen, but most large roundabouts at speed cause this quite violent lurch inwards and one of these days it's gonna cause a bump.

 

My dad (witness 1) has suggested maybe it's something in the rear beam, perhaps the left side, as when in a right hand bend more weight and stress will be placed there and perhaps once it reaches a point a weak component 'pops' into a new position which engages a tad of rear wheel steering and makes the front right turn in undesirably.

 

I'm not enjoying part of my driving and need some considered opinions please. I accept it could be quite simply that the garage didn't bother replacing it (unlikely - but an option), or that yet another GSF wishbone bush has failed prematurely. But I also feel it's probably been there all the time and the root cause has not been found.

 

Please help me enjoy attacking right handers as much I enjoy the lefters.

 

Regards all

 

RICH

Edited March 4, 2007 by DrSarty

[t16ryan 1]

Was the rear beam rebuilt? i would think the rear, do the wheels sit straight at the back ?

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

the bushes in the gsf arm dont last long at all , you'll need to get into the bushes and pry them with bfo screwdriver. you need to check the front subframe tightness . also the hole in the bottom hubs can oval out over time , especially with lots of bottom arm replacements and overtightening of the pinch bolt . This means the pin for bottom ball joint is slopping around in the hub even with the bolt tight .

check for play where the shock absorber ram comes out of the shock body

ryan is mentioning the rear beam , worn bearings, split mountings etc , but i have never found a dodgy rear to cause you're problems but this should by no means be discounted

 

the only way to find the ovalled out hub is to disconnect the bottom arm.

 

just throwing in a few things to check . i'm sure it will become obvious once you start investigating.

[kate205gti 4]

if you jack the front end up do you have any play in either of the front wheels? at 3/9o'clock or 6/12o'clock??

 

mine eats wishbones - GSF ones last about 3 months (balljoints!), paid for two new ones from allparts last may with warranty to hopefully solve this and theyve eaten the bushes (although the balljoints are still ok!) so next step is to polybush some i think!

 

but if your wishbones are brand new and torqued correctly then the next culprit would be an ovalled hub or a knackered pinch bolt (worth getting new pinchbolts from peugeot if u can) - how easy are the balljoints to get out of the hub?

 

definately sounds balljoint area related in my limited experience

[Batfink 201]

he replaced the hub with one of mine so it shouldnt be that. Loose subframe?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks for continuing to offer help.

 

Batfink> yep, your hub was/is fine, especially as it has a new bearing too, but if it's the sub-frame then it can only be the front bolts as I torque checked the 4 x rears last Friday on a ramp (which I didn't mention).

 

Could it be just one or both front sub-frame bolts?

 

As for the mention of replacing the wishbone bushes with poly bushes - supplier/cost please.

 

Rich