James Stewart 1 Posted June 16, 2007 Evening All, From what I can find, this doesn't seem to be a mod anyone has tried (or admitted to trying!) in a 205 on here, but it must have been done by now. It's 'fairly' common in rally Novas, Mk1/2 Escorts etc. I've recently fitted the electic power steering (EPS) column from a Corsa 'C' to a 1.9 GTi rally car (LAD big 8 valve head, camshaft, high compression engine with twin Weber 45 DCOEs - 160 bhp at the wheels - hence no space for the standard PAS pump, couldn't use the diesel camshaft-driven PAS pump because it's on standard ignition and we decided against an electric pump because there are two sets of losses with that system). The car is currently running on the Mercury Motorsport Stages two day event at Crail (Fife). The assistance is fine most of the time, but there is a problem at chicanes... Say a left entry chicane - you have assistance turning left on the way in, but you lose assistance when you quickly turn right to avoid the next hay bale. After the chicane the assistance is fine again. The same is true for the opposite situation with a right entry chicane. There have been no double chicanes to see how long the assistance is lost for. I felt there might have been a problem with the earth for the EPS motor and we have relocated the earth wire. After making sure the earth was good, in service (car stationary, on the ground and engine running) quickly moving the steering wheel from lock to lock, there was a noticeable drop in assistance, but it was still assisting to some degree because I was using my index finger on the steering wheel spokes! I'm back home now and haven't had any feedback from the crew to see if it has really worked. Does anybody have any experience of problems with this EPS unit? I know when they start to fail the EPS starts to pull the car to the left. In this case that is not happening. Admittedly the unit is from a scrappy, but it's from a 52 plate car that was written-off due to fire damage (it was clearly behind a car that was on fire, because the fire damage is limited to the front bodywork and a lick of flames up the side catching the driver's door handle - there is no cockpit, little engine bay plastic damage and no steering/suspension damage). Cheers, James. P.s. The car is currently sitting 18th Overall, 38s off the class lead, 2 Imprezas and a 6R4 chapping on the door going into tomorrow's stages, so we'd be grateful for any feedback! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest richardm Posted June 17, 2007 Hi James, I am building a 205 rally car and intend to follow the same route as you for power steering. The corsa rack is by far the most simple method for adding power steering. I also navigate in a nova with a corsa steering rack and the advantage of the system is unbelievable, helping us win the 1400's on the dukeries yesterday! Anyway back to your problem, from my research so far you need to have a module for adjusting the sensitivity of the rack (about 100 quid off ebay), this is because the corsa uses a speed signal to adjust the power steering, so when in town and you are going slow the steering is at its lightest and when at top speed the steering response is more firm. Have you got one of these? All i can think of is that when approaching a chicane from high speed the ECU in the rack isn't working properly and hence the harder power steering? I am by no means an expert but just thought i would let you know what i have found out so far. I am also interested in seeing how you have mounted the rack to the 205 shell, any pics would be great, was it a tough job? Cheers Rich Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Stewart 1 Posted June 17, 2007 Hi Rich, As you say, you need a controller to make it all work. The beauty of the system in my mind is you can have any rack you like on the end of the column - standard/205 PAS/quick rack - so long as it has a square pinion. The problem we have is only when you quickly turn from one direction to the other. The rest of the time it works perfectly. The polarity of the feed to the motor is positive in one direction and negative in the other (can't remember which is left and right), so it may not be able to switch directions quickly enough, but there haven't been any problems in the other cars the system has been fitted to. I wouldn't say it is tough to fit the EPS column, but it did take 2 weeks of evenings and a weekend to do it. That was mostly spent deciding how to do it though! I used the Corsa EPS column and the lower column (intermediate shaft on the 205). The rack is a standard 205 unit, but needs to be the square pinion type. You have to consider that the assitance is now applied on the column rather than at the rack, so the 205 column mount needs strengthened. That's also why I used the Corsa lower column, it's much "beefier". I decided to make as few modifications to the car and EPS column as possible, so the standard 205 column could be refitted. That said, I had to remove the section of pressed steel between the front (nearest bulkhead) and rear (nearest driver) weld stud column mounting bolts to accommodate the EPS motor. The 205 column mount was then reinforced by welding in steel rods. The original front EPS column mounting was shortened to raise the column up. Brackets were fabricated to go between the rear EPS column mounting holes and the rear 205 column mounting weld stud bolts. The Corsa's switch gear wiring is very low current. I opted for grafting the 205 switch gear onto the Corsa's upper column. The column was height adjustable, which was handy for getting the steering wheel in the right place. Once in the right place I welded up the hinge because there isn't space within the 205 column shroud for the height adjustment brackets. With hindsight the rear mounting brackets should be extended down to support the upper steering column too - it's a bit more wobbly than Peugeot managed! The Corsa's square pinion is narrower than the 205 rack. I filed out the Corsa's lower column UJ to take the 205 rack pinion. The flats on either side of the 205 rack pinion don't extend to the top of the pinion, so I filed the excess off. That was the only modification to the 205 rack itself and allows the rack to be used in the standard set up. The Corsa's lower column is splined to allow shortening/lengthening. You need a bit more length than it offers, so drill out the two indentations at the top of the tube attached to the lower UJ (you'll see what I mean when you look at it). Finally, hack away at the lower column bulkhead grommet to take the wider Corsa lower column while still sealing. If you don't the friction between the rubber and lower steering column will pull the grommet out of the bulkhead. The UJ at the bottom of the EPS column is very close to the clutch pedal, but if you mount the unit right it just clears. What I have done is by no means definitive, just a first attempt on the cheap with what was lying around and a relatively short time frame for the customer. They finished 13 O/A and won their class, so can't complain! I have a few photos and will look into sorting out hosting. James. P.s. Any questions, feel free to ask. I could write a dissertation on this, although I don't have all the answers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilgie 16 2 Cars Posted June 18, 2007 Why are you all being so hard on yourselves? The PASrack from a 205 can be used in combination with an electric PAS pump from a late 205 or even a 106. Straight fit. http://home.tiscali.nl/jonflorijn/jon/web/...rcooler/stb.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DanielVTS Posted June 18, 2007 Yes, 106/saxo EHPAS is an easier fit but if you've already done the conversion to EPAS then you need that speed controller or some way of fooling it into giving the assistance you want... nothing is simple these days! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest richardm Posted June 18, 2007 Wow James, That is a mighty detailed answer, just like what i was after. Very helpful, any pictures would be great. You obviously know far more about the system than i currently do. Out of interest where did you get your control module from. The only other thing your problem could be is that the motor is just worn. This is a problem i have heard of before when the steering is light one direction and heavy in the other. Sorry i cant be of much more help. Well done on the result. Cheers Rich Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Stewart 1 Posted June 18, 2007 Hilgie/DanielVTS: We did consider the PAS rack and an electric pump, but as I mentioned with that set-up you have losses in both the pump and the rack. Also you can use any rack with the Corsa EPS system, although not an issue in this case I would be using a 2.5 turn quick-rack. And I guess I wanted to know how to do it too! Rich: Succinct isn't in my dictionary, I had to cut loads of text out so it wasn't too silly! The guy who makes the control module is a friend of the customer. I have a number for him and will be speaking to him about the current problem. If you PM me a contact number or email, I'll pass your details on. I wouldn't want to give out his details without his permission. Yep, the motors do start to fail, I think this was more of a problem with the Corsa 'B' unit. The Corsa 'C' unit has a much bigger motor. James. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DanielVTS Posted June 19, 2007 Hilgie/DanielVTS:We did consider the PAS rack and an electric pump, but as I mentioned with that set-up you have losses in both the pump and the rack. Also you can use any rack with the Corsa EPS system, although not an issue in this case I would be using a 2.5 turn quick-rack. And I guess I wanted to know how to do it too! James. Quite right too, get stuck in and make it worK! A good friend of mine put a Corsa EPS in his Chevette and he seemed to have made it work well. Sadly he's no longer with us so I can't ask how he did it. I know who has the car though so could ask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Stewart 1 Posted June 20, 2007 Ok, some pics. Sorry for the delay. Hopefully this link will work! Corsa C EPS Pics James. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Stewart 1 Posted June 20, 2007 Seems to work, although the pics are out of order. Note in the first 3 pics the corsa's upper column is missing and when I say 'rear' I mean nearest driver, likewise 'front' is nearest the bulkhead. James. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rally ax 0 Posted June 21, 2007 "They finished 13 O/A and won their class, so can't complain!" -Yep Andrew did well !,,not bad for a 60 year old !? -but you'll have to ask him how Tracey managed to take 6 sec's out of him on the last 2 stages with a 1360cc ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Stewart 1 Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) "They finished 13 O/A and won their class, so can't complain!"-Yep Andrew did well !,,not bad for a 60 year old !? -but you'll have to ask him how Tracey managed to take 6 sec's out of him on the last 2 stages with a 1360cc ? 2 stages to go, no-one to catch and no-one to be caught by... I guess Andrew lifted! I'd be more worried about the little AX overtaking Andrew in the AWM 1.9 at Ingliston - it's supposed to be just shy of 160bhp (flywheel, at Ecosse), although Andrew did think our 1.6 hire car had more 'go' and better handling when he drove Car 0 in it on the Granite! James. P.s. I definitely think the AX's ability is down to a fantastic set-up and the engine, nothing to do with PSA building it out of tin foil, weighing less than a fag packet and would blow away in a stiff breeze! Edited June 21, 2007 by James Stewart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Stewart 1 Posted June 21, 2007 Of course, I wasn't overlooking Tracey's ability too. Just for the record! Wasn't Tracey driving on the Granite with Miss Jolly on the notes? I seem to recall Tracey announced she would hang up the gravel boots at the finish line? Such a shame, there is so much more fun to be had in the Forests! Although the lack of front subframe on the 106/AX put me off a 106 Rallye I was looking at a year ago. Don't fancy re-jiging the car after every event! James. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rally ax 0 Posted June 22, 2007 "nothing to do with PSA building it out of tin foil, weighing less than a fag packet and would blow away in a stiff breeze!" - they're not as light as you think ! Regarding the gravel- she's speaking about having a go on the Speyside with the 16v 106 since its lying doing nothing ,,,with me navigating !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
