Strongest Be3 Casing

[pdd144c 0]

Just wondering if anyone has any info about which cars had the best BE3 casings. The problem I have is that the standard 205 casings start to split around the diff area once power/torque reaches over 230ish. Some casings have extra strengthening in these places, any ideas which car/models? Once I know I can get on with building my T16 box!

 

Cheers

 

Paul.

[petert 549]

The T16 box looks a bit different. Why not use one of them?

[jackherer 543]

The T16 box looks a bit different. Why not use one of them?

 

I'm pretty sure that gearbox has the diff/driveshafts much further towards the rear of the car (like the gearbox on the 2.0 8v turbo).

[pdd144c 0]

Finding one could be an issue Peter. I'm sure something like a VTS BE4 or BX has the ribbed casing. Perhaps one of the later XU diesels may have something similar... Berlingo van maybe?

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

the T16 internals are based on the boxer gearbox,maybe worth checking the actual boxer boxes see if they have the tougher housings since the internals are bigger.

[pdd144c 0]

I haven't got any drawings of the T16 box, so if they different internally that is no good, as my gearkit is for a BE3/4. I'm surprised this hasn't been looked at before on here!

[welshpug 1,621]

isnt the T16 gearbox based on the ML5T gearbox? as in the one used on 2.0 Turbo's and V6's?

[jim21070 2]

isnt the T16 gearbox based on the ML5T gearbox? as in the one used on 2.0 Turbo's and V6's?

 

Looking at the picture and looking at my Activa, I reckon you're right there Welshpug. The one in the picture looks similar to an ML5.

 

Ratios may be a problem though, I don't believe there is much choice. AFAIK (and I may be way out here) the 2L CT, V6 and XUD11 2.1TD all used the same ratios in the ML5T. Certainly the CT has enough grunt to pull diesel ratios.

 

Using an ML5 'box may be interesting given its hydraulic clutch and cable operated gear selector.

 

The sump pan is also ML5 specific as the mountings are a bit different.

Edited August 8, 2007 by jim21070

[welshpug 1,621]

Looking at the picture and looking at my Activa, I reckon you're right there Welshpug. The one in the certainly looks similar to an ML5.

 

Ratios may be a problem though, I don't believe there is much choice. AFAIK (and I may be way out here) the 2L CT, V6 and XUD11 2.1TD all used the same ratios in the ML5T. Certainly the CT has enough grunt to pull diesel ratios.

 

Using an ML5 'box may be interesting given its hydraulic clutch and cable operated gear selector.

 

The sump pan is also ML5 specific as the mountings are a bit different.

 

 

seeing as its for a T16 race car I dont imagine it would need short ratios rigth?

 

as for the clutch mechanisnm thats easy to sort out, did anyone see thwe PUG1OFF orange V6 205? clutch master piston was bolted to the battery tray, and a BE3 push type lever arm pushing on the piston rod, on the end of a std clutch cable.

 

cable shift I think is a better way of shiftign as it does away with the need for any bellcranks, again Hilgie has used this in a few cars (includign a BE gearbox IIRC) benefit of this is that the shifter can be mounted pretty much wherever the cables allow you to.

 

Mountings and sump pan are small details to a confident fabricator

 

please dont take this as gospel though its just my observation from the threads on various forums

[jim21070 2]

cable shift I think is a better way of shiftign as it does away with the need for any bellcranks

 

Must be my Activa then My gearchange is a bit like stirring warm chocolate I guess it needs a new set of cables but have you seen the price of them

Edited August 8, 2007 by jim21070

[Sandy 189]

2.0 and some TD 406's have more substantial/webbed BE casings, which bolt to the sump, GTi6 style.

[pdd144c 0]

Sounds good Sandy, should be just what I'm looking for.

 

Paul.

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

I don't know which BE3 casing is the strongest...

But just for info about T16 gearbox.

T16 gearbox is ME based gearbox not ML. And ME box can be found on some 605 and 806....Maybe on Boxer too as someone mentinoed...

[BuD 0]

The gti6 box has 2 extra bolts holding it to the engine.

[phatgti 0]

Surely all you want to do is keep the heat out as that was causes it all to expand and crack - when your putting out 230+ that is some heat thats going through your drivetrain.

 

Rather than trying to find better casings, why dont you get a pump and a medium sized oil cooler to keep the internals cooler and therefor less prone to expanding.

 

Our Alfa 147 racecar box used to sh!t itself all the time until we fitted a cooler, not a single gearbox related problem now!

[pdd144c 0]

Very true Wayne, it's something Greg is looking into for me, but I still need some kind of casing as I currently have none, so I might as well get the best one available and give it a fighting chance! What kind of pump did you end up using? My Hewland sequential boxes don't appear to have any kind of cooling which surprised me a little, they will probably be up for sale soon...

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Small comparisson of the box I am using on my T16:

 

Left is a normal BE3 box, right is a Xantia 1.9TD BE3 box:

Notice the reinforcements, missing hole for the old BE1 lever and the thicker parts near the TDC sensor hole.

 

Another few from the inside:

 

Upper is normal BE3, bottom pic is Xantia 1.9TD BE3:

 

 

Again notice the extra webbing on the inside of the box.

 

@Petert: the T16 box is far from BE3, it's a ME5KX box. Quite useless in a 205.

For my 306 project (S16 turbocharged) I am using an ML6C box (6 speed ML box from a 407 2.2-16 HDi, same as on the V6). Unfortunately this box was never available on a XU engine. So I purchased an ML5T box from a 406 2.0T and swapped the bellhousings.

This last pic shows the ML6C box compared to a BE3 box. It's only slightly bigger, but the diff is HUGE, the casing is very strong. Driveshafts are very fat ones. Disadvantages: modification to the subframe to allow bigger diff to fit, hydrolically operated clutch, cable operated gearlever. Nothing that can't be fixed though. I even squeezed a Quaiffe diff in

 

 

@Welshpug: look at my sig mate!! 205 V6 already done also with cable shift and hydrolic clutch

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

In your opinion/observation Hilgie could the bellhouse casing from T16 ME gearbox fit onto the ML6c gearbox as this would be nice upgrade for T16.

Because of 4wd ME specific bellhousing and diff cover it is a must to use these T16 parts...

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

No...the casings of the ME and ML boxes are different and can't be swapped Only the differential of the 2WD ML en ME boxes are identical.

[phatgti 0]

It was a small industrial pump of some description, they are very good and we now run one for the rear diff on our RX7 without issue.

I'll try to find out specifics tomorrow.

[petert 549]

No...the casings of the ME and ML boxes are different and can't be swapped Only the differential of the 2WD ML en ME boxes are identical.

 

 

That's a bummer. I was hoping to build a close ratio T16 box using BE3 parts. So is that not possible? Could I at least use a 4:06:1 differential then?

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Nope....you'd have to source the ratios from ME or ML boxes...the internals are similar but do differ on some parts (like gear selection), so it's not a straight swap.

[petert 549]

The Xantia diesel case looks identical to my spare Mi16x4 case. So I think I'll just build a special box for my T16 in that.

[pdd144c 0]

Cheers Wayne, we have similar items on our RS500's but I've never looked that close at them personally!

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Peter do you have a T16 car or T16 engine that is going into a 205?

 

If you have a complete T16 with 4x4 I would source the ratios from ME and ML boxes adn stick them into the ME5KX box. The T16 ratios are quite long (about the same as the Xantia TD box) so the gearset from an ML box off a 2.0-16V engine should be a fair bit shorter.