Which Sump / Baffle Combination For Mi 16

[SPGTi 2]

I now have a GTi-6 "big wing" sump with integral baffle, a std tin 8v sump and an aluminium Mi 16 sump.

 

I am now wondering what will be the best option to fit to an Mi16 block :

In all senarios I will use 52 link chain/sprocket, 6bar spring

1. '6 big wing sump without spacer,

2. as above with windage tray

3. as 2 but with spacer (maybe PeterT version with incorporated windage tray) and extended pickup

4. use 8v tin sump with S16 baffle, spacer.

5. as 4 but with windage tray.

I cannot see where Mi16 ali sump offers any advantages over the above options.

 

My main concern with running an aluminium sump is that they tend to crack when whacked whereas the tin ones bend. Anyone any idea how the sump to ground clearance will differ between '6 sump (with an without spacer) and the 8v tin sump with spacer ?

 

Oh yes head will hopefully be a GTi 6 one and will be going in a rally car.

 

cheers

 

Steve

[welshpug 1,622]

Afraid I have no input on which combination to use, but a rally car without a sump guard??

[James_R 3]

The XU10 sump vs XU9J4 sump +spacer is the same.

 

As for what to use, your call, I never had issues with my Mi and a PTS baffle in a tin sump and ran a 13 row oil cooler which was fine for the ring but too small for the likes of combe and anglesea

That's just my experince.

[SPGTi 2]

Afraid I have no input on which combination to use, but a rally car without a sump guard??

 

I do run a sump guard, 6mm Dural aluminium, but they do bend and flex. At the moment the sump to guard clearance is a few mm. That is why I am interested in the sump to ground clearance of the different options, as if the sump starts to get lower I will have to mod the sump guard fixings.

 

Steve

[SPGTi 2]

The XU10 sump vs XU9J4 sump +spacer is the same.

 

As for what to use, your call, I never had issues with my Mi and a PTS baffle in a tin sump and ran a 13 row oil cooler which was fine for the ring but too small for the likes of combe and anglesea

That's just my experince.

 

Thanks. I was just wondering out of the different options what were the pros and cons.

 

I was not going to run with an oil cooler (something else to break). What oil temps can I expect without an oil cooler in the 16v engine ? My current 8v engine seems to be OK without an oil cooler (reaches half way on oil temp gauge but no further, the gauge seems ok as when you hit water the temp. immediately drops ).

 

cheers

 

Steve

[James_R 3]

the joys of big puddles, if really depends how you rev it and how fast your going, as said, tin sump, ring, I was on the 2n'd bar so about 11 O'clock, but at the likes of coombe (in 15mins) I was round to 1-1.30 on the gauge i.e I couldn't keep that pace and stay out there, anglesea I could do the full 20min session and was about the same till the car got shuttled, or the waterpump rather

 

As they rev more, they seem to generate more heat, if you use proper oil lines I can't see it goign wrong, esp it it's mounted on top of the gearbox mount area, well out the way of everything up there.

[returnofjim 0]

I wonder if this engine build would be made any easier by using an xu7j4 bottom end? 1.9 mi crank?

[luggy 13]

Anyone any idea how the sump to ground clearance will differ between '6 sump (with an without spacer) and the 8v tin sump with spacer ?

 

cheers

 

Steve

 

6 sump with spacer, standard ride height, clearance of 5.5".

[SPGTi 2]

6 sump with spacer, standard ride height, clearance of 5.5".

 

Thanks for that. Just need to know std 1.9 8v clearance (I have coilovers at the mo so am not sure on my exact ride height at thew front compared to std).

 

Jim,

 

What advantages would the Xu7 block bring ? What capacity would I be at with the 1.9 Mi crank ?

Have you rebuilt the 306 GTi 6 yet, hope the block was OK.

 

cheers

 

Steve

[returnofjim 0]

Thanks for that. Just need to know std 1.9 8v clearance (I have coilovers at the mo so am not sure on my exact ride height at thew front compared to std).

 

Jim,

 

What advantages would the Xu7 block bring ? What capacity would I be at with the 1.9 Mi crank ?

Have you rebuilt the 306 GTi 6 yet, hope the block was OK.

 

cheers

 

Steve

 

Im not 100% sure, I was hoping that someone else might have seen my reply and have commented on any possible advantages.

 

I was wondering with the xu7 16v blocks being alloy would suit you as i know your wanting to keep the weight down, i think the xu7 uses the same timing belt setup as a gti6? also the sump on an xu7 16v is alloy like the gti6 so no need for spacer/strengthener, also the top engine mount is much smaller on the xu7 which makes jobs like alternator easier to get to. I dunno if there are any other advantages or disadvantages of using an xu7 block as ive never used one on a build, but im very interested to find out more now.

 

I think with the mi16 crank in it would be the same capacity as a 1.9 mi, thats if it fits a xu7 block?

 

The gti6 engine is in the machine shop now having the crank done, the block was sound, cheers mate

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The alloy block really just needs to be thought of as that and not in CC's, they can be anything you like upto a shade over 2.0l but most of the time 1905 is the most you get out of it.

The best baffle is the PTS one for the 6 sump, Not cheap by any means but used on the early 306 TC's and the French Rally car's.

[guffe 2]

The best baffle is the PTS one for the 6 sump, Not cheap by any means but used on the early 306 TC's and the French Rally car's.

 

Anyone have good pics of these? Google finds only one. Copycat wants to make one.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

This is the 8v one which I modified slightly to go in my old Mi16 ally sump, new dipstick hole at the front and trim off a couple of small bits which fowled the sump ribbing

 

 

As my cars progressed though, running slicks and all that and I fitted a seperate stand alone pressure light, it was going under 25psi to much for my liking so I have now fitted a deeper GTi6 sump with the Mi16 brace/spacer bar so that I can run extra oil, removed most of the sumps single trapdoor which fowled my PTS baffle which I then modified slightly so that it fitted. This required a PeterT pickup extension and I put in a 2 litre oil pump spring as well. I had to drill down the 2 deep holes slightly on the sump due to the lack of long suitable cap head bolts and you need to use 2 shorter ones by the crank as the GTi6 (ie XU10 with AC) ally sump is thinner there than the old Mi16 one. You also need to get a oil temp sensor off a late 205 to use in the XU10 sump to ensure correct reading, the part number is on a thread here somewhere or I no doubt have it at home, £15 or something from Peugeot

Edited July 4, 2008 by VisaGTi16v

[James_R 3]

They're not too bad for the baffles PTS XU10 ones from memory, certainly compared to the cost of dry sumping.

 

could use a 1600PTS baffle in an XU10 depth sump as a plan B though. should be effective.

[guffe 2]

Thanks VisaGTI for the pics. So there is no trap door on the PTS baffle?

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Nope, just the vertical bits and the windage tray arrangement on the top. The XU10 has a single trapdoor but I cut that down to use my baffle plate instead which you can see in the photos

[SPGTi 2]

Hmmm, I am still not sure what to go for.

I think I will use the Gti6 sump.

The main decision is whether to go for an extended pickup, attaching the windage tray like petert does in the spacer / brace plate. Or not using the spacer and extended pickup and relying on the windage tray, trap door and the oil pump guards from the Gti6. I will be using the 52 link chain / sprocket and a Gti 6 oil pump.

 

Has anyone found pics of the 306 PTS baffles ??

 

cheers

 

Steve

[SPGTi 2]

After a quick look on Peugeot Sport Boutique, this seems to be the group A solution.

 

Group A baffles in Gti 6 sump

 

Anyone copied this ??

 

 

Steve

[James_R 3]

Think Miles has one attached to his Gti-6 engine, cheaper to buy than copy, they look pretty mental to make

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Get some pics up then Miles.......