Ok Hub/ Drum Removal Help

[Craigo 0]

i think this car is gettin me back for the continuous hittin it with a hammer, as nothing is being straight forward.

 

as another thread i posted a couple of days ago suggested, i have a seized nipple on the rear of my 1.6 gti. suggestions was a new brake cylinder, so i order one of those up;

 

go to remove the hub tonight to replace said cylinder, get the grease cap off, the hub nut and the washer out with minimal fuss, then go to remove the hub, no joy;

 

so refer to haynes manual, which quotes:

 

'i am useless please do not refer to me ever'

 

 

actually what it really says is:

 

'3 Withdraw the hub/drum from the stub axle.

If difficulty is experienced, due to the shoes

wearing grooves in the drum, insert a

screwdriver through one of the wheel bolt

holes and depress the handbrake lever on the

rear brake shoe so that it slides back behind

the shoe. This will retract the shoes and allow

the hub/drum to be removed'

 

now ive stuck a screwdriver in every hole (haha), turned the hub (it moves freely) bashed it with two different hammers, put the wheel back on lowered it to the ground and moved it about (got desperate) and the hub will not come off....

 

 

is there a 'special' place i should be putting my screwdriver?? haha, or is there some special technique involved?

 

i dont think the bearing is seized because it moves freely and has no play!

 

someone please shead some light before i kill it!

 

craig

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

There will be a lip worn into the drum which is catching the brake shoes & holding the drum on.

 

If you can get use of a hub puller like below, it should come off.

 

 

If not persuasive action with a lump hammer around the circumterence of the drum should get it off eventually.

 

When the drum is off, I tend to grind a chamfer onto the edge of the drum so they can't wear a lip & get caught again.

 

The haynes suggestion of pushing the handbrake lever behind the shoe is for the bendix drums & not the girling type fitted to the 1.6 GTI imo. I've also never managed to get it to release that way but have always got the drum off by my above methods.

 

Graham.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

I spent ages trying to remove a drum before and got nowhere despite a lot of swearing and abuse with various tools. Took it to my friends, he removed the hub nut, bashed the drum a bit, put the wheel back on with 2 very loose wheel nuts and turned it backwards and the drum wound itself off in a couple of seconds?!?

[welshpug 1,627]

same here, took ages to work the drums off Boombang's rally car, not had a problem on 306's though, they tend to use Bendix as Graham mentioned.

 

Since working on trucks I always grind the lip off, may only be a mm or so on a car but it can make the difference.

[Craigo 0]

There will be a lip worn into the drum which is catching the brake shoes & holding the drum on.

 

If you can get use of a hub puller like below, it should come off.

 

 

If not persuasive action with a lump hammer around the circumterence of the drum should get it off eventually.

 

When the drum is off, I tend to grind a chamfer onto the edge of the drum so they can't wear a lip & get caught again.

 

The haynes suggestion of pushing the handbrake lever behind the shoe is for the bendix drums & not the girling type fitted to the 1.6 GTI imo. I've also never managed to get it to release that way but have always got the drum off by my above methods.

 

Graham.

 

yeah seen those on ebay, will get one/make something that will do that job!!

 

actually, this will probably do it:

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/...mm-puller/path/

 

bit more expensive than ebay but i can pick it up today!!

 

as for the haynes, thats typical!!

 

 

oh and i tried the wheel back on and spinning trick, that didnt work!

 

tahnks guys

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

I think Machine mart will have the same type of puller as I pictured but the three legged ones you link to aren't that good for jobs such as this imo.

 

The one I posted a picture of is cheaper & should be available from somewhere like halfords if not Machine mart.

 

Graham.

[Craigo 0]

ok cool thank you! i will go on a hunt tommorrow!

[mainline 2 1 Cars]

Assuming you have got the washer out that comes off after the hub nut?

 

Just keep going at it smashing the hub from the back with a lump hammer and a drift and it will come off eventually. I have done it several times now, and each time has been a real pain in the ar*e, but, keep on smacking it and it will come off.

 

Good luck

[Cameron 16]

I feel your pain, had this the last time I had my drums apart. No amount of clobbering it or slide-hammer action worked. In the end I bashed the stub axle out and that seemed to work quite nicely. Much easier to beat something out than pull something off, if that makes sense.

You might find that the bearing has seized onto the stub axle, that was the problem I had anyway.

 

Edit: Remember to use a drift on the stub axle! Don't hammer it directly. Preferably an aloominum one.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Cameron

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Get one of the pullers as per the pic above. I have one and it has never failed me.

[boombang 2]

With mine we literally had to use a screwdriver through the wheel nut hole like Mei said above.

 

The self adjuster is basically a notched wheel with a spring loaded clip on top, acts like a ratchet.

 

Idea is when the pedal is pressed it turns the wheel, if it the movement of the pads is over a certain amount it tightens them up - if there is relatively little movement (as it should be) the ratchety bit doesn't lock the notched wheel.

 

The lip on my drums protrudes a fair bit (oo er!) but the inside face was still good and loads left. Before re-assembly I used some sandpaper and rubbed it down as much as practical. Hopefully next time I have to remove it'll only need winding off a small amount.

 

As mine is on a rallycar, I swapped over to drums to get it to lock up nicely, but it's far easier to maintain a rear disc setup IMHO. True you do have the joy of easy sheared nipples, and the have a habit of binding, but it beats spending an hour with a screwdriver through a tiny hole winding off something you can't see.

[Ricardo 0]

I had the same prob last week, in fact everytime I change cars and do drums it's always the same....

 

So now I fully adjust the shoes through the wheel bolt hole. This takes patience even to find the pesky thing!! Make sure it turns enough or the auto adjuster plate will push it back a notch to its starting point. Try a few then see if the drum turns easier so ensure you are adjusting the right way.

 

If it's still unable to slide off even when fully slackened then snip through the shoe retaining pin from the back of the mounting plate.

 

This is with the clip out of the way (and the other wheel drum hope not to confuse!)

 

 

Usually only one pin requires cutting. This allows the shoe to move enough with the drum exposing itself allowing you to tap both shoes towards each other ..... this has never failed me.

 

Then the drum comes off easy and wont crack due to over 'bashing' it as it is cast so more brittle than normal.

[Craigo 0]

ok got a puller like the on pictured, worked aboslutely spot on!!

 

so changed the brake cylinder, and the shoes whilst i was in there!

 

now the problem i have, is that the brake pipe twisted when i was undoing it from the brake cylinder, so crushin the line!!

 

did everything i could to straihten it, in the end it broke! so have removed the pipe, i need a new one!

 

where can these be obtained from?

 

also, whilst we were faffin with the brakes, when i had took the copper pipe off, and pumped the brakes, no fluid would come out of the ruber pipe, is there any reason for this? or do we have a problem with our rubber pipe as well?

 

we changed the shoes on the other side in about 5 mins, opened the bleed nipple on this, and fluid squirted out proper! so its not that no fluid is gettin to the back of the car!

 

anyone help??

[mainline 2 1 Cars]

I got pipes for both side from Pug, it was a bit of a nightmare as they supplied 2 x copper pipes with Male Female connectors, when one side needs Female Female, so make sure you specify that when ordering.

 

Alternatively a local member might knock up a set for you if they have a flaring tool (thanks Tom Fenton!).

[Craigo 0]

its a male to male one i need!

 

its really confusing me why the fluid would not come out of the rubber hose with the copper hose disconnected!

 

i did clamp that rubber hose initially when i was removing the cylinder, do we think this might have any effect?

[Craigo 0]

anyone shed any light on why there is no fluid? i think i might have trapped air... lol

[welshpug 1,627]

just take the section you need to a local motor factor or garage, they will be able to make you a new section.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Its very strange that you have no fluid coming out of the flexi because on a 1.6 the rear bakes are fed from a single line to a T piece above the beam where they split to each side so if you aren't getting any fluid out of the flexi on one side but are out of the other than you must have a blockage in the section of pipe or flexi leading to it.

 

Which side hasn't got any fluid coming through?

 

Graham.

[Craigo 0]

it is the drivers side, so from the tee piece, the line goes over to the other side of the car, into the flex, into the line, into the brake cylinder if you get me!

 

a mechanic friend thinks we have trapped air that we will force out using a pressurised system! new line on the way, and hopefully sorted satruday!

[trialster 0]

trapped air...hmmm

 

try bleeding it backwards, i.e. fill a syringe with brake fluid and connect it to the bleed nipple and force it up through the system. just make sure your maste cylinder doesn't overflow